#119. Bill Barnum on Housing, Redwood, and Humboldt’s Future

Scott Hammond: Ladies and gentlemen, friends and neighbors, boys and girls, and all those out to sea, it's me, Scott Hammond, with the 100% Humboldt podcast. I had to think about what I was doing for a minute.

Bill Barnum: Yeah. What are you doing?

Scott Hammond: With my new best friend, old best friend… I'm not calling you old. Bill Barnum.

Scott Hammond: Hi, Bill.

Bill Barnum: Hello again.

Scott Hammond: How's it going?

Bill Barnum: Going well.

Scott Hammond: Great to have you back.

Bill Barnum: Good to be back.

Scott Hammond: Tell us what's your, uh, what's your job? Just review us what's your, your pedigree, your history in Humboldt County, California. What-

Bill Barnum: Oh, my gosh

Scott Hammond: … who are you, what do you want?

Bill Barnum: Yeah. What do I want? Well, you know, it's interesting when you, when you interview people. I watch your interviews, it's, uh, uh, when you do your autobiography in a minute or less, you know, we all tend to talk about our work.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: So, we'll do that. So, um, sort of fun, it might cue you into some questions, 'cause I, I noticed you're really good at riffing with your guests, so

Bill Barnum: my f- my-

Scott Hammond: I'll try to keep up.

Bill Barnum: This is fun. So you ask, so you deserve this.

Bill Barnum: My first job was at Pay Less Drugs.

Scott Hammond: Oh, yeah.

Bill Barnum: On the old mall. I was a stock boy.

Scott Hammond: That's right.

Bill Barnum: Uh, I got fired.

Scott Hammond: I think I… You've told me this maybe off-camera before, but-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … great story.

Bill Barnum: Cute story.

Scott Hammond: He let you go.

Bill Barnum: 17 years old. Uh, we got up near Christmas, and four of the floor managers quit.

Scott Hammond: Huh.

Bill Barnum: Assistant manager called a Saturday meeting. He goes, uh, "I need volunteers. I need a floor manager. Actually, I need four." I'm 17, I raised my hand. We had a training session and he took advantage of my exuberance, so he had me open and close the store Saturday and Sunday through Christmas.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Bill Barnum: Yeah. Got through to January and I sat down. His name was Sheldon. Said, "Sheldon, how am I doing?" He goes, "You're doing great. You saved me. Good for you." I said, "Well, I wanted to ask, since I'm doing the job and you're satisfied, could I have a step up in pay? I'm still getting a buck, 65 an hour, and the bottom step for this position's 2.05, so I'd like to get to 2.05."

Scott Hammond: What do you, what do you think, Sheldon? Come on, man.

Bill Barnum: And he looked at me and he got really quiet. And he says, "How old are you?" As though now it's relevant.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Bill Barnum: I'm 17. He goes, "Oh, when's your birthday?" I said, "June." He goes, "Oh. Well, we'll talk about it in June."

Scott Hammond: Nice.

Bill Barnum: So I just kinda cocked my head like a Labrador retriever and said-

Scott Hammond: Huh

Bill Barnum: … "Well, I, I wouldn't have asked if you were unhappy with me, but since you said I'm doing a good job, I thought I should at least qualify for the bottom step."

Scott Hammond: Sure.

Bill Barnum: And he steel-eyed me and he goes, "We'll talk about it in June." So I s- stood my ground and said, "I, I just think it's fair."

Scott Hammond: Yeah, what'd he say?

Bill Barnum: He says-

Scott Hammond: He goes…

Bill Barnum: … "Clean out your F-ing locker."

Scott Hammond: "And get the hell out of here."

Bill Barnum: "Get out of here." So I rode my 10-speed bike home and walked in the house, and my dad looks up, he goes, "Well, you're home early." I said, "Yeah, I got fired." Told him the story. He goes, "Good for you, son."

Scott Hammond: That's my boy.

Bill Barnum: "Stick up for yourself." And he said, "You're a high school senior. You don't need a job from now till June. Just relax and have fun." So-

Scott Hammond: Nice

Bill Barnum: … that's what I did.

Scott Hammond: Good, good dad story.

Bill Barnum: Yeah. So then I, I, I did get a job, um, after graduating. I got a job selling cars for Harvey Harper.

Scott Hammond: Yep.

Bill Barnum: And I did that for two years going to Humboldt.

Scott Hammond: He's legend here.

Bill Barnum: Wonderful. And his son Danny and I, uh, we opened the Mid-City Mazda store on Broadway.

Scott Hammond: Is that right? Okay.

Bill Barnum: M- moved it out.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: Then I went to work for Paul Nicholas.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, remember him. Right down the street.

Bill Barnum: Another great mentor. Um-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … worked for him at Northwestern Mutual Life. Then went to law school.

Scott Hammond: Say hi to Paul. Hi, Paul.

Bill Barnum: Yeah. Um, and then I came back from law school, worked for a guy named Francis Matthews for a few years.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

Bill Barnum: And then we went out, uh, Dave Dunn and I went out, formed Dunn & Barnum in '82.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: We hired a, a young lawyer in '83 named Rob

Bill Barnum: Arkley-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … and made him a partner in '85.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: '87 I went solo and stayed solo un- uh, till I completed my career in

Bill Barnum: 2019.

Scott Hammond: Gotcha.

Bill Barnum: Yeah, there you go.

Scott Hammond: Good story.

Bill Barnum: That's all I got.

Scott Hammond: All those… Thanks for coming today.

Bill Barnum: Yeah. Is the hour up already? Golly.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. The hour goes quick, I've-

Bill Barnum: It does.

Scott Hammond: I tell people, they said, "It's the fastest hour of my week."

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: It, it's draining-

Bill Barnum: Probably true

Scott Hammond: … 'cause I have to focus and I have to riff and be brilliant, if I can be.

Bill Barnum: Like you don't have to do that in sales, right?

Scott Hammond: No, no. I just show up and s- stand around.

Bill Barnum: Sign here.

Scott Hammond: The, um… No, Harvey Harper o- opened one of the first Ford dealerships in the, in the w- in the na- not in the nation, the West Coast.

Bill Barnum: In 1912. His, his grandfather.

Scott Hammond: West Coast, right?

Bill Barnum: His grandfather, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: Drove from, uh, Phoenix, Arizona to Eureka.

Scott Hammond: How about that?

Bill Barnum: Started a Ford dealership.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And we have a fir- a couple of firsts, too. I think, uh, Channel 3 KIEM and, and,

Scott Hammond: uh, um, the gentleman who won the Peabody, Ron Pelegi's friend.

Scott Hammond: Mr-

Bill Barnum: Bill Smullen

Scott Hammond: … B- Mr. Smullen.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: He was a award-winning broadcaster-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … early on, and K-

Bill Barnum: Real pioneer. He was in radio and then TV

Scott Hammond: … K-RED Radio, right?

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And KINS-

Bill Barnum: K- KIEM-

Scott Hammond: … what, uh, Ken

Bill Barnum: … was actually a radio before it converted call sign to TV.

Scott Hammond: How about that? And I know that he, uh, he started real early. And then the Vance Hotel was early because it had its first sewage or, uh, plumbing or hot water or electricity. It had a first-

Bill Barnum: I think it was-

Scott Hammond: … down in Old Town

Bill Barnum: … I think probably electricity.

Scott Hammond: Might have been.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. So a lot of firsts here in the county.

Bill Barnum: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Well, good story. So, uh, so you're retired. How do you like retirement?

Bill Barnum: Well, um, I haven't really experienced it yet. Um, my- … my, my dad passed away a few years ago and so now I'm working in Barnum Timber Company, and that's been, uh, a time of change.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: We chatted about it off camera.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: If you wanna get into that

Scott Hammond: Let's talk about redwood lumber.

Scott Hammond: It's-

Bill Barnum: There you go

Scott Hammond: … is, the, the market's dropped, dropped out, out?

Bill Barnum: It's essentially gone. Um, there, there's no significant volume of redwood logs being sold in the marketplace right now. Big changes in the last decade or

Bill Barnum: so. Um, you know, when, when you and I were youngsters, um, a product known as clear heart redwood-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Bill Barnum: … was a high value, high demand product.

Scott Hammond: Beautiful. Beautiful wood, right?

Bill Barnum: Beautiful products. And, um, so the old growth was logged out pretty much by the 1990s, and what we're logging now principally in, in the county is second growth.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: And it doesn't have quite the quality characteristics of the old growth.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: And so the industry sort of morphed, um, uh, a significant volume, excuse me, of redwood was converted into redwood fence boards.

Scott Hammond: Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Roughly three-quarters of an inch by five and a half, sold as one by six redwood, and those are sold mainly by Home Depot and Lowe's.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: But those are being cut out of, uh, logs, uh, from redwood trees that are being thinned from forests.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Bill Barnum: Redwood's a unique species in that if you start with an old growth redwood, and let's say it's four feet

Bill Barnum: in diameter-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … redwood has a quality, unlike Douglas fir, that when you harvest that first growth tree, it's sempervirens, it's always living. And so it throws up shoots and grows a whole new generation of trees.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

Bill Barnum: Sometimes two or three, as many as 14 or 15.

Bill Barnum: And, um, to maximize the yield from that forestry, uh, the industry goes in and thins those forests and takes out the inferior or smaller.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Bill Barnum: Sometimes the opposite. They'll go in and take the better trees and leave the, the smaller. In any event, you end up with a, a volume of redwood logs that, for instance, might be, say, 14 inches in diameter, uh, at the butt, at the cut end.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: And you might have three inches of white wood on either side and eight inches of redwood in the middle, but the tree's not mature, so the redwood hasn't deepened into a deep red. Uh, instead a sort of a strawberry color.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: And the white on either side is the sap which has not yet been infused with

Bill Barnum: color. They'll make fence boards out of that, and the fence board will have some white wood and some strawberry redwood, and that goes to market in huge volumes. So what's happened across the country is that redwood has lost its mystique as being a-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Bill Barnum: … high va- high value-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … product. Um, used to be a lot of redwood deck boards sold.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: Now competing with things like Trex and other-

Scott Hammond: Plastics

Bill Barnum: … plastic, uh, fake woods. So anyway, um, there, there is some demand for redwood, but the industry's sort of in change and there have been some, um, reduction in, uh, lumber production as demand has dropped. And so as recently as 2024, we had record high log prices for redwood, and now it's

Bill Barnum: virtually not merchantable.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Bill Barnum: That may change, you know, in two or three years, but-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … the industry, uh, all of the lumber industry has, uh, a history of sort of feast and famine-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … depending upon nationwide demand. Demand is down now.

Scott Hammond: We saw that in COVID, right? Could, you know, plywood for 100 bucks a sheet.

Bill Barnum: Yep. So yeah-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Bill Barnum: … big spike in, in prices.

Bill Barnum: There's an-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Bill Barnum: … awful lot of remodeling going on during COVID.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Bill Barnum: Folks had time on their hands, and-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Bill Barnum: … demand went way up.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, we built a second home for our special needs son, Gabe.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: A little ADU in the back, and seemed like a good use of time.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: So anyway, as always, there's, uh, up and down markets.

Scott Hammond: Yep. It seems like feast or famine for us, whether it's cannabis or-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … internet or crypto or

Scott Hammond: redwood.

Bill Barnum: Crypto.

Scott Hammond: Crypto's, uh, well, I don't know if that counts.

Bill Barnum: I don't think that Scott and Bill are playing in the crypto game.

Scott Hammond: No, I, I, I don't… I v- vaguely know what it is.

Bill Barnum: I can spell it, but that's about it.

Scott Hammond: That's about it. So let, let's go back to your, your pedigree in terms of who you are, where you went to school. So-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … you're a local guy. You went to St.

Scott Hammond: Bernard's?

Bill Barnum: No, I went to Eureka High.

Scott Hammond: Uh-huh.

Bill Barnum: Uh, and, uh, went to Humboldt State University. When I started there, it was California State University at Humboldt, later on State

Bill Barnum: University.

Scott Hammond: Yep, CSU.

Bill Barnum: Now it's Poly, but back then HSU.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm, then HSU and-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … and now Cal Poly, CP-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … he has a-

Bill Barnum: CPH

Scott Hammond: … CPH, yeah. Um, prior guest, Dr. Richard Carvajal, president of Cal Poly-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … um-

Bill Barnum: I'm gonna meet him.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, you will. He's a great guy. Hi, Richard. Um, he, um, what a great u- N- N- Nice man. He's able to explain all of that, that morphing into a Cal Poly, and we, uh, we'll probably talk about that for a second.

Bill Barnum: Sure.

Scott Hammond: What do you think of that? That's a really cool thing. It's a n- it's a next level designation.

Bill Barnum: Oh, I think it is. Um-

Scott Hammond: Can only help the county

Bill Barnum: … but now it has to live up to the, to that title.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: And so we have to graduate superior quality, uh, students and get them out in the working world-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … and build a reputation on, on their shoulders.

Scott Hammond: And as he was talking, he's very adamant about wanting to retain people into the county, these grads, and create, uh, uh, an economy and jobs and industry, et cetera.

Scott Hammond: Um, and I, and I thought back to my talk with this guy, Bill Barnum, of episode

Scott Hammond: 57 100 episodes ago, about housing and, you know, housing and healthcare and, and all the things that are gonna need to support all that. I go, "I don't know about all the math. I guess we'll, we'll wait and see," but he's got a big grand, grand vision that I

Scott Hammond: think, um, uh, I'm believing that he's got a team that's gonna put together and do it.

Bill Barnum: Well, I hope so.

Scott Hammond: It'll take time.

Bill Barnum: Yeah. It's difficult for the university, uh, to attract, uh, the faculty that they're gonna need because the housing here is so

Bill Barnum: scarce.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Bill Barnum: Um, had a chat with, uh, John Ford, the county planning

Bill Barnum: director. John has his thumb on the pulse. He knows what's going on. He told me last week that the, the biggest demand for his agency's services is remodel permits.

Scott Hammond: Oh.

Bill Barnum: So he's finding that people are moving up from Bay Area, LA, and other places with equity-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … and finding a scarce supply of suitable housing, so they're buying up what you and I would consider the middle class housing-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … uh, four or five, six, $700,000 houses, but they're sitting on a million or two of equity.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: So they buy those houses and then remodel them.

Scott Hammond: And just do a, a rebuild.

Bill Barnum: They just can't find, uh, market rate housing-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Bill Barnum: … at that eight, $9 million value.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: They've got, they have the money for it, there's just no resource here for them.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, which is really hard. I, I, I look at, um, you know, uh, these h- these monstrosities downtown. They, you know, right behind McCray Nissan and down over by City Hall and Myrtle-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … we just drove by that.

Bill Barnum: Me too.

Scott Hammond: And I go, um, I go, "Cool." And it was state money, and that's okay, but where are we gonna… You know, not everybody owns a car anymore, so we'll give that honor. But, uh, I, I already don't have parking anyway downtown.

Bill Barnum: Right.

Scott Hammond: And these guys are a half block away, and I'm going-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … these poor guys from McCray Nissan, where are they gonna park?

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I mean, there's no lot. But, you know, they're not building other lots. And there's no-

Bill Barnum: No. And the city's gonna take over that lot behind, uh, the brewery and put a t- transportation hub in there.

Scott Hammond: Correct.

Bill Barnum: If I remember correctly, and I may not, I think they have something like 40 apartments planned on that half block.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: And they're gonna be able to pull the buses off the street and have sort of a bus station there.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Bill Barnum: Uh, again, that's, um… It's interesting. The city, um, con- conducted a bunch of its, um, parking studies at a time when there was very little parking happening.

Scott Hammond: Now, there's an interesting factoid, a, a very

Scott Hammond: subtle-

Bill Barnum: Well, you, I mean, you worked downtown. I did for years in my law practice. And, and now if I drive downtown, it's not unusual that I'm parking a, a couple blocks away.

Bill Barnum: And, you know, big city people laugh at that and say, "Well, gosh, you're, you're lucky

Bill Barnum: to get a-"

Scott Hammond: You're lucky.

Bill Barnum: "You're lucky. That's fine." But the character of Eureka is not truly urban. It's sort of a pseudo urban because, uh, we've really only got about, what is it, five blocks, first, second, third, fourth, fifth.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Um, and from A to, what would it even be?

Bill Barnum: A to L.

Scott Hammond: L.

Bill Barnum: It's just not very big.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: Um, so anyway, the, the, the parking lots, we talked about this I think the first time around, the parking lots were organized in the late 1950s.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Um, and old 18th century buildings torn down. The, the, the lots were often, uh… or the buildings were often on, uh, wooden frames up out of gullies. Gullies were filled, parking lots provided, and it was good for, uh, the retail merchants, uh, fifth, fourth, third. They used to have an organization called North of Fourth-

Scott Hammond: Right

Bill Barnum: … that was a, uh, a retail sponsoring organization.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: And you had to have the parking. We'll, we'll see how this plays out. One criticism I have of it is I, I think all of this, um, high rise on the parking lots, if you think about this, it's, uh, it's a band-aid-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … in terms of a decade or more of time. Th- there's only so many parking lots that could be converted.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

Bill Barnum: And it may help the city meet its regional housing needs allocation for low income housing, but that's usually over, I think, a five-year period.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Bill Barnum: Um, and so every five years, the state's gonna come back and say, "City of Eureka, you need to have-"

Scott Hammond: Some more.

Bill Barnum: "… more zoning-"

Scott Hammond: More and more.

Bill Barnum: "… more capacity."

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: And there's, uh, obviously a finite supply of empty parking lots-

Scott Hammond: Right

Bill Barnum: … that are owned or o- operated by the city.

Scott Hammond: They were talking waterfront too behind Dick Taylor Chocolates, right?

Bill Barnum: Yeah, of course.

Scott Hammond: Speaking of Dick Taylor.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Oh, did you know there's a chocolate bar perhaps in your future?

Bill Barnum: Well, lead us not into temptation.

Scott Hammond: No, no, but deliver us, no, from peanut butter chocolate.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: What?

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Oh.

Bill Barnum: I, I joked with you about town, uh, before we went on, that's not gonna make it all the way home.

Scott Hammond: You sh- Well, you don't have it in your pocket yet.

Bill Barnum: I don't think Monica can see this until later, right?

Scott Hammond: She won't see this till Monday morning.

Bill Barnum: Oh, that's good. By then it'll be gone.

Scott Hammond: Sorry, Monica. He, he ate it. We couldn't help it.

Bill Barnum: Well, they-

Scott Hammond: Got to tell the truth.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So they'll revisit every five years and come back and say-

Bill Barnum: I think it's five years. It may be a longer time, time horizon, but the point is, is

Bill Barnum: that, um-

Scott Hammond: You're gonna run out of parking lots to build.

Bill Barnum: You're gonna run out of parking lots. And so it's a band-aid of those who are saying, "Yes, we need it. That's fine." So then you do it. So then what do you do? Where are you gonna go? We're gonna talk about the waterfront. The waterfront, that's, um, a, a favorite, uh, unhappy topic for me. When I was 18 years old, a high, high school senior, I was involved

Bill Barnum: in, um, one of the advanced planning groups for, uh, the reconstruction of Old Town.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: And the zoning all along our waterfront was zoned as, uh, waterfront

Bill Barnum: dependent.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Bill Barnum: Which meant that, uh, it would be for fisheries or fish processing or other things like that.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Well, you can see what's happened.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: So I graduated high school in '72, so we're 54

Bill Barnum: years later.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: And it's been fallow for half a century.

Scott Hammond: There's no development.

Bill Barnum: That's not, that's not good planning.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: That's not good planning.

Scott Hammond: Something is missing here.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And that's anything resembling

Scott Hammond: planning.

Bill Barnum: We've had some very capable people, won't name names because they're as disappointed as I am, but people have proposed things like waterfront hotel projects-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: Couldn't get through the zoning burden

Scott Hammond: Amphitheater, big kinda outdoor convention center

Bill Barnum: All the ideas that, that would add value and-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Bill Barnum: … and make that, that, uh, boardwalk, uh, really a valuable asset. And here we are. That just has not happened. It's a shame.

Scott Hammond: Let's cut, let's cut to the chase real quick if I-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … if I may.

Bill Barnum: Please.

Scott Hammond: I rarely do this.

Bill Barnum: Well, I watch the show, so I may have seen the chase get cut.

Scott Hammond: I, I'm not exaggerating. Um, so what do you think the obstructionist

Scott Hammond: mentality, h- how do, how do you see it? Because it, to me, it just seems like there's such a, um, a, "We can't do it. I won't do it. I'll stand against it. I don't– don't confuse me with the facts," kind of headspace. And, and I understand we're not gonna bring a nuclear power plant to Humboldt Bay.

Bill Barnum: Not likely.

Scott Hammond: I, I get it.

Bill Barnum: Yeah, yeah.

Scott Hammond: You know, um, you know, here's Amazon up in McKinleyville-

Bill Barnum: Right

Scott Hammond: … just building a warehouse. Okay? And that's met with great violent, you know, uh-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … opposition. So the oppositionist mofo

Scott Hammond: factor-

Bill Barnum: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … how do we– how do you source that? How do you read that? And, and how has it played out, I think you were just kinda going there, over 53 years? It's, it's we're stagnant, and what are the results that our kids and grandkids will, will live in a, in a really weird job-free-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … Humboldt County?

Bill Barnum: I was talking to somebody about th- this last week. You know, um, I'm gonna be 72 in a week.

Bill Barnum: So six-

Scott Hammond: Happy birthday.

Bill Barnum: Yeah. Sixty-five years ago, Humboldt, um, was a pretty dynamic place.

Bill Barnum: Um, the peak population post-World War II was 1960.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Bill Barnum: Hundred and six thousand people in the county. Hundred and six.

Scott Hammond: 106.

Bill Barnum: Yeah. We're at 131 now.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Bill Barnum: So do the math. Twenty-five thousand more-

Scott Hammond: That's not even a 1% growth

Bill Barnum: … isn't that something, in 66 years.

Scott Hammond: That was my birthday, yeah.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: It's, it's very quiet growth. So what did we have? We had, um, uh, sawmills. Uh, at that point we had peaked. I think there were a few hundred sawmills of some very small ones up to the big ones, uh, up until 1960.

Scott Hammond: And many of them around the bay.

Bill Barnum: Oh, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: And, and everywhere. P- back, uh, Whitethorn and Salyer-

Scott Hammond: Which is, I guess, in Trinity County, but you get the idea. They're there

Bill Barnum: … Blue Lake, Corbell.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Up, every little valley had a sawmill.

Bill Barnum: Cornell. Um, and so people could say, "Well, that's extractive," and it's true, and it was overcut, and that's true.

Bill Barnum: Um, the fishering, the fishery business was big. Um, company called Eureka Fisheries, um, that the Thomas and Hunter families operated, was at one time the largest volume fish processing company in the West Coast.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Bill Barnum: Don't have that anymore.

Bill Barnum: Um, it was a very diverse community. I remember being at, uh, Marshall School, Zane Junior High, and Eureka High.

Bill Barnum: It was, uh, quite socially diverse, uh, a real blue-collar working community.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Um, the university was, uh, Humboldt State College in those days. Uh, it was probably 3,000 or 4,000 students.

Scott Hammond: Wow. Really small.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And before that it was the Teachers College, right?

Bill Barnum: The, it was the Normal College.

Scott Hammond: Normal.

Bill Barnum: 1913.

Scott Hammond: And I was gonna say, yeah.

Bill Barnum: Yeah, 1913. So the growth was very slow, but it's interesting to me that we went from 106 in 1960, we dropped, and this is an interesting decade, halfway through the '60s, 1965, is when the two pulp mills opened.

Scott Hammond: Huh.

Bill Barnum: So they opened in a declining timber economy.

Scott Hammond: Interesting.

Bill Barnum: And they depended upon wood chips as a waste product of that industry.

Bill Barnum: Um, by 19, um, get the math right, by 1970, we'd dropped to 93,000 people.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Bill Barnum: That's quite a drop.

Scott Hammond: Huh.

Bill Barnum: And of course, have grown since then. At the height of cannabis, I think we're nearing 136,000.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Bill Barnum: I think we're 4,000 or 5,000 down now just since-

Scott Hammond: '16, '17, '18, somewhere before-

Bill Barnum: Since, since it was-

Scott Hammond: … legalization

Bill Barnum: … legalized, yeah.

Bill Barnum: So, um, I think because of who we are behind the r- redwood curtain, there's a cadre, a strata of people that are, uh, sort of, I would use like Humboldt hermits.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Bill Barnum: They're sort of like, "Here we are behind the redwood curtain."

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: "We don't want change. We don't want, um, a vibrant economy." Where are the employee, employee opportunities here today? They're in government, government, government-

Scott Hammond: Government

Bill Barnum: … health,

Bill Barnum: government.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. I'm trying to think of an industry.

Bill Barnum: I mean, we-

Scott Hammond: Tour-tourism?

Bill Barnum: I mean, we could say education, but education is a byproduct of government,

Bill Barnum: so.

Scott Hammond: Right, right.

Bill Barnum: Um, we have a very stable economy in that sense 'cause the payrolls are

Bill Barnum: good.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Um, and we have a wonderful art community. Art community here is amazing.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: It's just outstanding.

Scott Hammond: But that's an up and down, I mean, unpredictable.

Bill Barnum: Well, obviously, when, when the,

Bill Barnum: when the people who can afford to buy art have money to buy art, then the artists-

Scott Hammond: That's great

Bill Barnum: … make money.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: And when the-

Bill Barnum: … wealthier people don't have money for art, then the artists starve.

Scott Hammond: Sounds like Texas with oil.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, when oil prices are up, they're great.

Bill Barnum: Everybody, woo.

Scott Hammond: Everybody buys a truck.

Bill Barnum: Yeah, or two. So I don't know. I think there's always been NIMBYs.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: I think in any community you're gonna have NIMBYs.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: But here in Humboldt, we have sort of an extra Humboldt hermit. Let's just not have change and-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Bill Barnum: … um, it's interesting. S- some of the biggest changes in the last decades have come from out of the area. Not that I applaud this, but just to make the observation, um-The Bayshore Mall came in, what,

Bill Barnum: 1987?

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: And that was general growth out of Chicago.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: And that, that entity's tanked.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Bill Barnum: Malls all over have tanked or-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … being repurposed.

Bill Barnum: Um, you know, the little strip mall next to the mall has-

Scott Hammond: Vi-Victoria Place?

Bill Barnum: Yeah, Place. Yeah. That was developed by a family, uh, Mangano Family Properties of Visalia.

Scott Hammond: Visalia?

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So-

Bill Barnum: Out of the area money comes in and sees things that we here don't see.

Scott Hammond: Interesting.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: That stayed fa- fairly full, but yeah, it's kind of-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … oddly located.

Bill Barnum: Well, it-

Scott Hammond: Hard to get in and out of.

Bill Barnum: Yeah. What are you gonna do?

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: You know, you, you got Highway 101 on your doorstep.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And then we talk about all the future of offshore wind and-

Bill Barnum: Oh, yeah

Scott Hammond: … the fish farm that's not happening, and Great Ro- Redwood Trail that'll be done in five decades, and- I, you know, I-

Bill Barnum: Well, the Great Redwood Trail, I mean, it's, uh… They said it'll be about 300 miles long.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Um, who's gonna maintain it? Who's gonna police it?

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Bill Barnum: Keep it safe. Can that be done?

Scott Hammond: Great questions. I haven't thought of that.

Scott Hammond: Nobody's-

Bill Barnum: Um-

Scott Hammond: Is that addressed in any of their planning?

Bill Barnum: Psh, haven't, haven't checked.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: Thoroughly uninterested. How does it translate into a, a revenue-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … for any part of the county? I, I don't see it. You're not gonna have Starbucks along the trail.

Scott Hammond: No.

Bill Barnum: Uh, Jitterbean would make money, but Starbucks, no.

Scott Hammond: Hey, Rick.

Bill Barnum: I was gonna say, the Roberts family-

Scott Hammond: Hey, Roberts.

Bill Barnum: Yeah. They'll make coffee anywhere.

Bill Barnum: No.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, no, I, I think it, it probably has a destination effect, that people come and stay and camp and spend m- some money, but I, it, it, it ain't-

Bill Barnum: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … it, it ain't an industry.

Bill Barnum: Well, look at Orick.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Uh, 1968, '70, '72, they were gonna expand the national park, and they said, "Don't worry, you're gonna have tourism."

Scott Hammond: Just was there.

Bill Barnum: Well, you know, the, the only gas station up there is gone, and,

Bill Barnum: um-

Scott Hammond: Yep

Bill Barnum: … motels are gone.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: The biggest building is the federal building.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: It's the national park building.

Scott Hammond: The gateway.

Bill Barnum: The gateway to the national park buildings.

Scott Hammond: Don't get me wrong, it's-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … we just did Brown Creek at, at, uh-

Bill Barnum: It's gorgeous

Scott Hammond: … Prairie Creek and, and-

Bill Barnum: It's gorgeous. Fern Canyon, all of that.

Scott Hammond: It's, it's amazing, but it, it's the most underused park in the system.

Bill Barnum: Yeah. Well-

Scott Hammond: Versus Zion, which is number one.

Bill Barnum: Not surprising.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And they have a gateway city called Springdale-

Bill Barnum: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … which is full of bougie hotels and- … coffee and food, and it's amazing, and-

Bill Barnum: Do we not know how to market? I don't know.

Scott Hammond: I don't know what it is. Crescent City doesn't seem to be the big gateway city for Redwood National Park either, so-

Bill Barnum: And it's cheap by jowl.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: And we haven't done much with that, have we?

Scott Hammond: No, we haven't, and it's, it's sad because it, it, that… I think it's in the ilk of Humboldt Bay. You look at the bay, you go, "Hmm, wow, there's a lot of open land here that's doing nothing." And it's-

Bill Barnum: Yep.

Scott Hammond: It, it is interesting, that Humboldt hermit concept, and, and it's funny 'cause, and, and if I was a Humboldt hermit, I would tell you enviro arguments, and-

Bill Barnum: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … it's cool, and that's green, and let's keep it that way, and-

Bill Barnum: Right

Scott Hammond: … let's preserve it.

Bill Barnum: Let's keep it that way.

Scott Hammond: And yet, um… And Johnny and I talk about this.

Scott Hammond: Hi, Johnny. If you don't have jobs, you don't have families, you don't have money, you, you have

Scott Hammond: something really not that great. And, and those NIMBYs have denied that again and again and again to have at least the possibility of some jobs, I think.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: You know? Uh, are we really that hurt by using some land in McKinleyville zoned for Amazon? Get a couple hundred jobs. I, I don't know. Uh, is that gonna really destroy the v- the vibrancy of Humboldt County?

Scott Hammond: I-

Bill Barnum: I just don't see it.

Scott Hammond: I don't, I don't… So I don't understand. Maybe somebody can call me and tell me about that.

Scott Hammond: Anyway.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I just-

Bill Barnum: I don't like, I don't like the, uh, the style of

Bill Barnum: protest.

Bill Barnum: Um-

Scott Hammond: What do you mean?

Bill Barnum: Well, at the Amazon hearing, um, I, I talked to John Ford about this. I have a lot of sympathy for, for people in government that have to deal with an unhappy public.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Bill Barnum: Um, you know, people used to comport themselves.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: You know, you'd walk up to the microphone and say, "Make no mistake, I'm opposed to this project. I don't think it's good for the community," and blah, blah, blah.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

Bill Barnum: "I've been heard." You'd sit down.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, have a seat.

Bill Barnum: Have another speaker.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: But the railing, the interruptions, uh, screaming and, and foul language and whatnot, it's just, it's just disruptive. It doesn't really affect the decision process.

Scott Hammond: Right. Okay.

Bill Barnum: Um, I'm sure Amazon encounters this most everywhere.

Scott Hammond: Or, or not. Maybe they're just welcomed in with open arms.

Bill Barnum: I think it's everywhere. I, I, you know, Amazon has a lot of enemies in, in

Bill Barnum: our social-

Scott Hammond: Sure

Bill Barnum: … communities everywhere.

Scott Hammond: They're big in Medford and Rogue Valley, a big giant warehouse, and-

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: You know-

Bill Barnum: Well, you heard the story that, um, Amazon wanted to build a big project in Queens, uh, but,

Bill Barnum: uh, Congresswoman AOC fought it and said, "Don't come to my district."

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Well, that was some number of thousands of jobs lost.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Bill Barnum: And I understand that. Amazon's not a, a favored neighbor for many communities, so I understand it. I just think people ought to, you know, keep their integrity and speak their opposition and sit down. It's not gonna change it anyway.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: Um-

Scott Hammond: Comportment.

Bill Barnum: Well, to, to a location, as you point out, Steve Mosier developed that-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … commercial subdivision decades ago.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: As with all things Humboldt, the absorption rate is very slow.

Scott Hammond: It has stayed very empty, considering.

Bill Barnum: Yeah. So think about if you're the investor, and you lay money out to put in utilities and streets and sidewalks and whatnot, and you sit back and-

Scott Hammond: This is 30, 40 years ago, right?

Bill Barnum: … and you wait for a return on that investment.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: And that's why there's essentially no growth here. If you don't have those things available, they won't come.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Bill Barnum: So-

Scott Hammond: Right. So before we do the chocolate bar thing-

Bill Barnum: Oh, yeah

Scott Hammond: … one, one last point. I think-

Bill Barnum: Sure

Scott Hammond: … just a quick review of, of your story from last time. So Eureka was zoned for so much growth in the '60s,

Scott Hammond: '70s, '80s, and developers were unable to get projects through efficiently, affordably, uh, and get an ROI in their, on their booksCould you reiterate that story real quick? There were only, what, three homes?

Scott Hammond: Try three or four. There was a handful of homes that got built, not 300.

Bill Barnum: Yes. Um, well, should build with this

Bill Barnum: basic fact. Humboldt County has about 57,000 homes.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

Bill Barnum: The average home is older than I am.

Scott Hammond: Okay. You're– What are you, 45?

Bill Barnum: I'll be 72 in a week. So you drive around anywhere in Humboldt and ask yourself, "How old is that house?"

Scott Hammond: Ah.

Bill Barnum: "How old is that house?"

Scott Hammond: Pretty old.

Bill Barnum: You're looking at old housing.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: So that's all old housing. Drive around Eureka, especially west side, and look at all the houses that are still on pier and post

Bill Barnum: foundations.

Scott Hammond: Bunches. Bunches.

Bill Barnum: Very rudimentary construction techniques of 100, 150 years ago.

Scott Hammond: Yes, true. You're-

Bill Barnum: Think about 1926 is just 100 years ago, and those houses were, were built on concrete foundations.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Hmm.

Bill Barnum: So you're really looking at houses pre-1925.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Bill Barnum: So,

Bill Barnum: um, Eureka really built out. Uh, we have, uh… The last large expansion of the

Bill Barnum: city

Bill Barnum: boundary was in the 1950s.

Bill Barnum: Um, my father and his partner, Fred Lumblade Senior, um, acquired 320 acres from Campton Road out

Bill Barnum: to Herrick-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … uh, where the golf course is. They donated the golf course and lumbar hills and all those areas. That was the last annexation of any significant size.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Bill Barnum: Lumbar Hills started in 1965, and about 163 houses there.

Scott Hammond: Not huge.

Bill Barnum: Not huge. Um, so it's not a, um, it's not a Sacramento-style tract development where you build 300 homes and sell them in a

Bill Barnum: year.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Nothing like that in Humboldt County.

Bill Barnum: Up in, um, McKinleyville, um, Jim Furtado's done a wonderful job-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … providing affordable housing.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: And Kurt Kramer's done a fabulous job on the apartment side. Um, I know Kurt's trying to get the North McKay tract developed. That'll be about 320 units.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

Bill Barnum: But you notice how long this takes. When I was practicing law 33 years ago,

Bill Barnum: 1993-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Bill Barnum: … I was working for Louisiana Pacific Corporation when we made that tract

Bill Barnum: available.

Scott Hammond: Hmm. 33 years ago.

Bill Barnum: Thirty, and it's not developed yet.

Scott Hammond: It's not, it's not– There's not a house up yet.

Bill Barnum: So I told you this before, and you, you get under my, a burr under my saddle with these stories. But- … the, the county, um, which of course adjoins the city, the city, the county. The county in 1995, it's 31 years ago-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … did the Eureka Community Area plan.

Scott Hammond: That's what we're talking about.

Bill Barnum: Yeah, that's what we talked about. And they said 1,200 units, uh, would be built in the Dunn Robinson tract, 300 in the Slack Winsler, Winsler tract, 200 in the Reardon tract.

Scott Hammond: For a total of?

Bill Barnum: What is that? 12, 15, 1,700 units. Okay, that's 31 years ago. How many houses are there today?

Scott Hammond: Under-

Bill Barnum: You remember this story?

Scott Hammond: Double, under double figures. Oh, there's two.

Bill Barnum: Two houses.

Scott Hammond: I thought there was three.

Bill Barnum: Two houses.

Scott Hammond: Good Lord.

Bill Barnum: Now, if that's what planning produces, if planning says 1,700 and the market says two, is that really planning?

Scott Hammond: You got a disconnection of some sort.

Bill Barnum: So you see, the game is the state says to the county, "You need your regional housing needs allocation. You have to zone for housing."

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Doesn't mean the housing's ever gonna get built.

Scott Hammond: Right. It's implied, but it-

Bill Barnum: I don't even know if it's implied. It's almost scamish-

Scott Hammond: Huh

Bill Barnum: … you know, to me.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Um, we talked about this before.

Bill Barnum: Right now, if you wanna buy, uh, raw land and put all the improvements in it to create a merchantable building lot for a home, it's about $80,000 a lot.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Bill Barnum: But you also have to get paid for the dirt.

Scott Hammond: Ah.

Bill Barnum: Right?

Scott Hammond: Right. The dirt's-

Bill Barnum: The dirt's got value. So-

Scott Hammond: That acre, that acre costs money.

Bill Barnum: Yeah. Now, my buddy Kurt Kramer told me 20 years ago that if you want a rule of thumb, if you're buying raw land as a developer, the cost of the lot developed should be approximately one quarter of the finished

Bill Barnum: product.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Bill Barnum: So $150,000 lot, $600,000 house.

Scott Hammond: All right.

Bill Barnum: Well, the median wage earner in Humboldt County can't afford 100 and– a, a $600,000 house.

Scott Hammond: Not even close.

Bill Barnum: Our building costs with a more stringent building codes, you know, every new house has to be sprinkled for fire. It's a good thing.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: But it's $15,000 to $20,000 a door.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Um, all told, it's a little more than $300 a square foot-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Bill Barnum: … for basic-

Scott Hammond: Yes

Bill Barnum: … housing.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. When I started-

Bill Barnum: Nothing fancy

Scott Hammond: … 12 years ago with State Farm, we were quoting buck 50, buck

Scott Hammond: 75.

Bill Barnum: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: And now it's well over 350.

Bill Barnum: So if you're, if you were to build just a 1,000 square foot

Bill Barnum: house-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … which would be very small, three and two or three in one-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … house, that'd be 300,000 for construction.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: And you gotta buy a lot.

Scott Hammond: 100.

Bill Barnum: Easy.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: Remember, 80 to build the improvements. Are you gonna get by with 20,000 for the dirt?

Scott Hammond: Mm-mm.

Bill Barnum: Not gonna happen.

Scott Hammond: So it's, it becomes math.

Bill Barnum: It's just math.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: And if you're the investor, you have to see, I can produce a product, but I have to have a buyer. At the end of the game, I need revenue.

Scott Hammond: Yep.

Bill Barnum: I'll s- I'll invest elsewhere.

Scott Hammond: And their math is what? They would check theirs twice.

Bill Barnum: At the kitchen table. They said, "Does that make me money?"

Scott Hammond: With dope.

Bill Barnum: "I don't think so."

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: Or is my investment one year, five years, or ten years?

Scott Hammond: Right.

Bill Barnum: Or Lumbar Hills, what is that? That's 61 years now.

Scott Hammond: Crazy.

Bill Barnum: What is that? That's just not even three lots a year.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.I'm getting a burn in my saddle right now.

Bill Barnum: See?

Scott Hammond: Yeah, I'm starting to squirm a little bit, Nick.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: What's wrong with your chair here? Hey, um, you know, when we go to Boise, Idaho, the Treasure Valley-

Scott Hammond: … it's, it's, uh, people are wonderful. The drivers are wor- are worse.

Bill Barnum: Well, they're from California.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, that's the, that's the accusation. I'm not sure I buy it, but-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … uh, half of them are.

Bill Barnum: Or Portland.

Scott Hammond: Or, or Portland. That's fair. Boy, they really cuss the Portlanders in, in Boise politics.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: The city of Boise hate those Portland guys.

Bill Barnum: Did you see the news this last, two days ago? The, um, the people who are, I guess they're animal rights and vegan people in Oregon have obtained enough signatures for an initiative- … that will ban

Bill Barnum: the killing of animals and fish in Oregon.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Bill Barnum: You may not hunt. You may not fish.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: You can't raise cattle or sheep-

Scott Hammond: And you can't slay an animal

Bill Barnum: … or hogs.

Scott Hammond: Huh.

Bill Barnum: None.

Scott Hammond: Those Portland guys can get away with a lot 'cause they're three-quarters-

Bill Barnum: Isn't that fascinating?

Scott Hammond: … three-quarters of the state's running the show

Scott Hammond: in one…

Bill Barnum: Yeah, but isn't that interesting?

Scott Hammond: That is an interesting, uh, set of laws.

Bill Barnum: Yeah. So you think about the guys that, you know, go up to float the Deschutes River and fish for trout on the Deschutes.

Scott Hammond: Sun, Sun River.

Bill Barnum: Illegal. Yeah, done.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Catch and release.

Bill Barnum: Yeah. Well, I don't think you could do that.

Scott Hammond: I don't know if you-

Bill Barnum: You might kill them.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, you might kill them.

Bill Barnum: Yeah, get a hook in their mouth, kill the fish.

Scott Hammond: Man, where do I live? I live…

Bill Barnum: Isn't that something?

Scott Hammond: So P- so Boise real quick.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Subdivisions as far as the eye can see.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Dude, it, it is-

Bill Barnum: And they absorb

Scott Hammond: … it's amazing.

Bill Barnum: You build it, they sell it.

Scott Hammond: Nampa, Caldwell, Meridian-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … Eagle, Boise proper. It's like, and these cats do giant, big pro- Micron's gone in there on the east

Scott Hammond: side-

Bill Barnum: Ah, yeah

Scott Hammond: … of Boise.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: You know, 2,000 jobs. How wouldn't that be a thing? Um, and I don't know that I'm advocating for that.

Bill Barnum: I don't know either.

Scott Hammond: But there is, there is a-

Bill Barnum: You don't need to worry about it, so.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Not in my lifetime.

Bill Barnum: We're still in California.

Scott Hammond: I still love Humboldt-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … and, and the people and the, and… But it is confusing and, and sad to me. So, hey, on that unsatisfactory note-

Bill Barnum: Sure

Scott Hammond: … let's talk about you, uh, winning a chocolate bar.

Bill Barnum: I'd like to earn it.

Scott Hammond: Ladies and gentlemen.

Bill Barnum: Ding, ding, ding.

Scott Hammond: I gotta try to get it to ring right.

Bill Barnum: But there's always a question.

Scott Hammond: Well, there is.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: There's several.

Bill Barnum: Oh, jeez.

Scott Hammond: So I'm gonna make them, uh, I'm gonna make them next level for you, upper division. So for this, uh, oh, this is a brown chocolate and brown bu- dark chocolate, brown butter, nibs, and sea salt.

Bill Barnum: Wow.

Scott Hammond: The nibs are quite good. Joni puts those in her, uh, yogurt and fruit in the

Scott Hammond: morning.

Bill Barnum: Oh.

Scott Hammond: It's a 73% Uganda chocolate.

Bill Barnum: Yeah, I like that ratio. That's good.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. These are, this is actually is one of my favorite ones. This is pretty good. This is the brown butter. I thought this was the peanut butter.

Bill Barnum: Are you gonna embezzle that, or are you actually gonna give it out?

Scott Hammond: No, I'm not. I'm gonna-

Bill Barnum: All right.

Scott Hammond: Well, we'll see.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: You might lose, you might lose the contest if somebody's gotta eat it.

Bill Barnum: Best three out of five falls?

Scott Hammond: Uh, sure.

Bill Barnum: You and me? Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Okay, here we go. Are you ready? Question number one.

Bill Barnum: Okay.

Scott Hammond: What's life-giving for you, Bill Barnum? What, what brings you that, uh, that hit in life that gives you, uh, I don't know, encouragement, life, um, joie de vivre? What gives you, uh, motivation?

Bill Barnum: Eucharist.

Scott Hammond: Eucharist. E- explain.

Bill Barnum: Well, I, uh-

Scott Hammond: For those of us that don't know-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … what that might be.

Bill Barnum: Um, I'm a cradle Catholic. I'm married to a, a, a beautiful, wonderful Catholic woman. Um, we, we actually met in church.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Um, and we, we believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Bill Barnum: And, um, he, uh, he invited us.

Bill Barnum: Uh, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood will have eternal life."

Scott Hammond: Remember me.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: So, he's the bread of life. He's invited us, and, uh, that's what we look forward to.

Scott Hammond: I love it.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Love it. Good, good answer. Hey, part B of the question.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: What, uh, sucks your, your soul dry? What, what depletes you?

Bill Barnum: That's a really good question.

Bill Barnum: Um…

Scott Hammond: Besides the stuff we're talking about earlier.

Bill Barnum: Yeah. Golly, I, I don't really know that I ever let anything have that effect on me.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Bill Barnum: I, I think I got a little bit of a spiritual Teflon.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Good.

Bill Barnum: So I don't think I would have an answer for you.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Bill Barnum: I don't think I'd go there.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I, um, as, as much as I know there's sadness in the world, I don't-

Bill Barnum: Absolutely

Scott Hammond: … I watch a lot of news, and I don't resorb it 'cause I can't change it.

Bill Barnum: The news, the news is really like history, and history, as Henry Ford said, "History is bunk."

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Bill Barnum: So when you read a history book, you're reading really an

Bill Barnum: op-ed.

Scott Hammond: Ah, interesting. So it's-

Bill Barnum: Absolutely. Yeah

Scott Hammond: … a spun, spun history.

Bill Barnum: Well, uh, it depends on your point of view. Um, my brother Charles taught me a great expression that I lean on in my life, and he called it OPR, other person's reality.

Scott Hammond: Ah.

Bill Barnum: Now, if you're gonna tell the story of the conflict with Iran right now, if you were, um, a Shia Muslim-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … you'd have a slightly different opinion of the matter than Mr.

Bill Barnum: Trump does.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

Bill Barnum: So if you're writing the book in Iran-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … you'd write one story. If you're writing it in Washington, D.C. in the Trump White House-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … you'd have a different opinion entirely. What is history?

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: History is a story and a, and an opinion.

Scott Hammond: It's an op-ed.

Bill Barnum: It's bunk.

Scott Hammond: So q- question for you. This came up the other night.

Scott Hammond: We digress.

Bill Barnum: It's interesting bunk, though.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. We'll do, question number two's coming right up.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Um, but I digress. Uh, the other night at home group, w- somebody said-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … "Hey, we're not a Christian nation. It wasn't developed on Christian principles." And I said, "And, and the American experiment has failed." And they go, "Whoa, hold, hold on. It, a little time out here, bro." Um, and I, I, I challenged that, andUh, y- you're well-read. You've been to law school. I would, would assume you have some level of, of his- historical perspective.

Bill Barnum: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Um, were, w- was our nation, our laws, our, our, our, our Constitution, were we based in, um, not just Christian values, but men and women that added to this that had a, a, a Christian perspective mindset?

Bill Barnum: I think-

Scott Hammond: In your opinion

Bill Barnum: … if you were to look at the individual biographies of the Founding Fathers, you'll find there were more deists than there were Christians.

Scott Hammond: So Jefferson-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … Franklin.

Bill Barnum: Uh, you know, tha- that crowd, um, they were re- reputedly, uh, agrarian

Bill Barnum: farmers-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … in their orientation. They knew the, the wealth came out of the grounds through

Bill Barnum: hard work.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Um, but they had a wide variety of, of faiths or not faiths.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Um, they were students of history of, uh, uh, Greece and Rome, and, and of course, England, Britain, and they sort of… I- if you, if you dig into it, it's quite interesting, the, the conflicts among the original colonies, and those who were favoring

Bill Barnum: slavery held out as long as they could and, and y- we saw what happened.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: There's more diversity in those individuals than we like to think about.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: So if someone says we are a Christian natura- nation, always have been, I think that, um, is not a very deep analysis.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: I think we certainly have Judeo-Christian principles-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … um, that the society generally has followed, but with religious freedom, there's an awful lot of diversity out

Bill Barnum: there.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Yeah.

Bill Barnum: That, that really is the, that's the model.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, and Franklin was really interesting. He's my, he's my boy, that guy.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Phew.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Went over to the French and got them to fund a war, dude.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: What are you talking about?

Bill Barnum: And, you know, we had our-

Scott Hammond: It's actually capital

Bill Barnum: … our early navy over there fighting the Muslims in the Barbary Coast.

Scott Hammond: Oh, really?

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Bill Barnum: So in the, the marine the- marine theme-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … from the shores of Montezuma to the h- hills of, what is it?

Scott Hammond: Tripoli?

Bill Barnum: Tripoli.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Libya. That's-

Scott Hammond: Okay

Bill Barnum: … um, so w- we were fighting over there very early in our young nation's career.

Scott Hammond: Interesting.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: The Decembrists are a band that do a st- a song on Ben Franklin. It's quite entertaining.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Hey, but that, we're really digressing.

Bill Barnum: We are.

Scott Hammond: Question number two.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So you and Monica get to go out for the day, doing whatever you want, and then go to whatever restaurant you want.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Uh, where, where are you, where are you going?

Bill Barnum: Well, again, Humboldt, you can go s- so many places. We don't have time to list them, right? That's, that's the beauty of it.

Bill Barnum: Um, I think when we wanna go out and have a, a, a special dinner together, um, we'll go up to Moonstone Grill-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … at sunset.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: Beautiful photographs on this phone from-

Scott Hammond: Sure

Bill Barnum: … sunset up there.

Bill Barnum: Um, we've had more and better restaurants in the past. Ironically, we had a lot of r- really great restaurants during the cannabis era-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Bill Barnum: … 'cause there was cash everywhere.

Scott Hammond: Oh, yeah.

Bill Barnum: So we have to recognize that, um, the oh, happy day of restaurant life is gone.

Scott Hammond: It has shifted.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: It's shifted tremendously.

Scott Hammond: I remember the old ones like Manora Thai and-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … and, um,

Scott Hammond: what was T-

Bill Barnum: You're not old enough to remember Manora Thai.

Scott Hammond: To- Oh, yeah, Tomaso's.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: That was great. What was it, Fat Albert's? He was down there.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: What's that now? That's, um, Sea Grill.

Bill Barnum: Ah. Well, m- more recently, we, we, we really liked, uh, Nick Cole's Oberon Grill.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: That, that was great.

Scott Hammond: Delicious.

Bill Barnum: And Avalon, we, it was Bev and her Avalon.

Scott Hammond: Oh, yeah.

Bill Barnum: It was fabulous.

Scott Hammond: Oh, yeah. Everybody mentions Larrupin on-

Bill Barnum: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … the show, and, uh, you know, uh, Two Doors Down, and, uh-

Bill Barnum: I had a problem with Larrupin. That's where I learned that I have a food allergy to basil, so I sort of, you know.

Scott Hammond: You got a ba- you got a bad vibe there.

Bill Barnum: What are you gonna do?

Scott Hammond: Discovery.

Bill Barnum: It wasn't Dixie's problem. It was all mine.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. D- what a legend she, she is and was.

Bill Barnum: Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So, uh, y- you haven't really said what you would do with the day if, if you're given a d- a d- I know you're retired, so you could have a day off anytime you want. But what would you do with the day and where would you go to eat? Oh, you said Moonstone, okay.

Bill Barnum: I said, yeah. Um,

Bill Barnum: the, um, we're, we're, we're really pretty much homebodies-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … either here or out at the ranch. Um, we like being active in the garden.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Um-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … sort of small picture stuff.

Scott Hammond: It's good.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: We call it a quiet night in-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … where we get a salad-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … a remote, and then we watch our senior citizen program. And it's funny, I never thought I'd find a really great deal of satisfaction in

Scott Hammond: that.

Bill Barnum: You know what's been entertaining of late, if folks haven't seen it, it's really quite sweet, is, uh, I think it's on Netflix. It's, um, uh, Love on the Spectrum.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: And that's really-

Scott Hammond: Cool show

Bill Barnum: … quite, that's a good husband and wife show. And we've seen some of the, um, couples therapy also.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Uh, and again, it's, um, it's sort of entertaining 'cause you see yourselves in-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Bill Barnum: … in the lives of others. And it's, it's good. It's humbling. We should all keep in mind that, uh, we're not all that.

Scott Hammond: I love, uh, Love on the Spectrum's-

Bill Barnum: Isn't that great?

Scott Hammond: … such a good show.

Bill Barnum: Touching. Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Gotcha. So, uh, who are you and what do you want? Question number four.

Scott Hammond: Three.

Bill Barnum: I think it's five or something like that.

Scott Hammond: Well, you're gonna earn this chocolate bar.

Bill Barnum: Apparently.

Scott Hammond: Who, who are you? Uh, not what do you do.

Scott Hammond: So you s-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … you said it well. I can tell you that I'm a state farm-

Bill Barnum: I'm done with the do stuff.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: Um, I think that, uh, my mom passed away a month ago.

Scott Hammond: I'm sorry to hear that.

Bill Barnum: Yeah. She was 94, 10 months, and 22 days.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Bill Barnum: She passed at home in her own bed-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Bill Barnum: … which is something we all aspire to.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

Bill Barnum: Um, not to be morose or, or, uh, dark about this, but maybe a bit of a sense of humor. I've been imagining that there's a giant escalator to heaven.

Scott Hammond: Wait, there's not?

Bill Barnum: And, yeah, there is. And we're all on it, and, uh, I watched my mother go up into the clouds and disappear.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: And then I heard a clanking sound-

Scott Hammond: Huh

Bill Barnum: … and come tumbling down this escalator, and I reached up and grab

Bill Barnum: it. It was a baton.

Scott Hammond: Ah.

Bill Barnum: She passed the baton.

Scott Hammond: Good.

Bill Barnum: So I'm next in the relay race.

Scott Hammond: You're, you're, you're heading up the… You're, you're going up.

Bill Barnum: So I've been sort of, who, who am I? I'm a child of God. I'm on the escalator.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Uh, I wanna be who He thinks I should be-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Bill Barnum: … and ally myself with His ambitions for me.

Scott Hammond: Love it.

Bill Barnum: Yeah, so I think those thoughts.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Um, I'd like to see a, a, a community that loved e- each other better than we do.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: A little less rancor, a little less bitterness, uh, less class conflict. People are people- … wherever they are.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Think about this guy, Bezos. He was selling books out of a garage in Seattle.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: So is he really a guy we should hate because of his success?

Bill Barnum: Or just say, "If you wanna do it differently or better, go do it differently or better."

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: But, uh, I'm, I'm opposed to rancor and-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … darkness and all that, but I'm not-

Scott Hammond: Good

Bill Barnum: … I'm not gonna beat anybody up over it. I just, my wish, my hope, my desire is we-

Scott Hammond: Sure

Bill Barnum: … could all just get along.

Scott Hammond: Love it.

Bill Barnum: Be more Christ-like if we could.

Scott Hammond: If you could, yeah.

Bill Barnum: Make the effort.

Scott Hammond: I love it.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: We can and should and do and will, and, uh, I think of all those things about identity.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: What's your identity, and who's assigning it for you?

Bill Barnum: Exactly.

Scott Hammond: You know? Your, your coach-

Bill Barnum: But-

Scott Hammond: … your mom, your dad, your government?

Scott Hammond: What?

Bill Barnum: I'm clear.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: I'm clear.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Good. I know you are.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Well, hey, congratulation…

Scott Hammond: Wait.

Bill Barnum: Oh.

Scott Hammond: Bonus question. No.

Bill Barnum: Number six. This is becoming abusive on this side of the microphone.

Scott Hammond: Usually they're three softballs, and you, you're getting seven.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Hey, um, congratulations on the, uh, Brown Brother nibs and sea salt, uh, chocolate bar. Enjoy.

Bill Barnum: You're actually gonna give it to me?

Scott Hammond: Enjoy that. Yeah, absolutely.

Bill Barnum: It's been a tease for an hour.

Scott Hammond: I know. You've been staring at that. Just keep your hands off of that chocolate.

Bill Barnum: It'll melt, right? It's-

Scott Hammond: Yeah, no, you want it to-

Bill Barnum: … room temperature

Scott Hammond: … yeah, room temperature. Goes good with red wine, turns out.

Bill Barnum: Well, I gave up, uh, alcohol in February, so-

Scott Hammond: Oh, that's right

Bill Barnum: … yeah, I'm going the other way now.

Scott Hammond: Atta boy.

Bill Barnum: Well, I had enough.

Scott Hammond: How do you feel?

Bill Barnum: You know what's really delightful? I don't miss it at all.

Scott Hammond: Atta boy.

Bill Barnum: And, and, uh, there must be other people like me, because I go to the bar and get either a mocktail or a fake beer-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … and they're happy to serve me, so.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, no, non-alcoholic's huge. It's everywhere.

Bill Barnum: It really is popular now.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. And it tastes-

Bill Barnum: But I'm not going non-chocolate.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, you-

Bill Barnum: No

Scott Hammond: … yeah, don't get carried away now.

Bill Barnum: I'm, I'm picking my poison. Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I like it. So what do you, what do you love and, and about Humboldt? Uh, if you just bring it into that simple question, what do you-

Bill Barnum: Well-

Scott Hammond: What do you love the most?

Bill Barnum: … look at your map. You know, you got your Metzger's map.

Scott Hammond: Oh, my Metzger's. Let's look at that.

Bill Barnum: Yeah, yeah.

Scott Hammond: I… Over here with Nick. Here we go.

Bill Barnum: So-

Scott Hammond: So th- this is Eureka. This is Kutten where we talked about out here.

Bill Barnum: So, you know, j- uh-

Scott Hammond: Oregon

Bill Barnum: … you know, my work, I was a real estate lawyer, as a dirt lawyer.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: And so look at that map-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … and compare it to, say, the, the, the grasslands of Kansas.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Look at the diversity here.

Scott Hammond: Oh.

Bill Barnum: We've got ocean. We've got bay.

Scott Hammond: Rivers.

Bill Barnum: We've got six main rivers. We've got creeks everywhere. We're alive with fish, alive with

Bill Barnum: deer.

Scott Hammond: Mountain.

Bill Barnum: Mountain lions.

Scott Hammond: Yep.

Bill Barnum: Um-

Scott Hammond: Redwood

Bill Barnum: … and so we've carved out these little highways so we can get access to all these beautiful places, get up on a ridge top, watch a sunset.

Bill Barnum: Um, it just sears into your mind. When I was young, we used to go snow skiing at Horse Mountain.

Scott Hammond: Oh, let me show you where that is.

Bill Barnum: Yep.

Scott Hammond: I know you know already.

Bill Barnum: I, well, uh, east, east, east, east, east.

Scott Hammond: Is Horse… Oh, this is Tuna, so it's right here.

Bill Barnum: Yeah, yeah, east and up the hill, a little southeast.

Scott Hammond: Oh, this is the twist back here. Yeah.

Bill Barnum: Yeah, a little southeast.

Scott Hammond: So this is it right here.

Bill Barnum: Little more east. Little more east.

Bill Barnum: South.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

Bill Barnum: Right there. Right there. That's Horse Mountain.

Bill Barnum: No.

Scott Hammond: Oh, that's Horse. Okay.

Bill Barnum: No, a little right-

Scott Hammond: So this is Redwood Valley right here.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Little-

Bill Barnum: Point is, you could go skiing there, and you could have dinner on the beach at Moonstone.

Scott Hammond: Same night.

Bill Barnum: Same day.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Bill Barnum: Get up, go skiing, 3:00 or 4:00 in the afternoon, get in the car, go down to the beach, bonfire.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Bill Barnum: Hot dogs, burgers on the beach.

Scott Hammond: Go for a swim.

Bill Barnum: Yeah, it's… You could.

Scott Hammond: You could.

Bill Barnum: You could. I didn't, but you could. Um, so it's that. Um, Humboldt County is, is just amazingly… And the redwoods, um, river gorges, what's not to talk about?

Scott Hammond: Fern Canyon.

Bill Barnum: Unbelievable. So this is 3,600 square miles.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Half the size of New Jersey. They have 8 million people. We have 131,000.

Scott Hammond: Oh, wow.

Bill Barnum: I know where I'd rather be.

Scott Hammond: Do the math on that.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Not quite as humid either.

Bill Barnum: What? Well-

Scott Hammond: In the summer

Bill Barnum: … well, not 85 and 85, yeah.

Scott Hammond: It doesn't snow like it does there.

Bill Barnum: That's true.

Scott Hammond: Frozen.

Bill Barnum: It does in the mountains.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, a little bit in the summer, in the summer and the winter.

Bill Barnum: That's what I, I love about Humboldt. Humboldt's, uh, just everything.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. You talk about biodiverse doesn't even say it.

Bill Barnum: Crazy.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Well, hey, um, your show now, what, um, what are you proud of in your life?

Bill Barnum: Um, I don't think about that.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: That's an interesting question. What am I proud of?

Bill Barnum: Um, you know, Scott, I just don't think about myself pridefully.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: I'm sure I have pride.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: But-

Scott Hammond: Well, I don't-

Bill Barnum: I wouldn't-

Scott Hammond: … think proud of something that necessarily connotates a, a prideful

Scott Hammond: attitude.

Bill Barnum: Yeah. Um, well-

Scott Hammond: Maybe we misuse the language a little.

Bill Barnum: Maybe so.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: Maybe I, I would choose, choose a different word.

Bill Barnum: Um, self-satisfied.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: Um, love my family.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Um, generationally, a lot of interesting people.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Some are really interesting.

Bill Barnum: Uh-

Scott Hammond: Like all families

Bill Barnum: … some are really interesting.

Scott Hammond: Not your family.

Bill Barnum: But so, yeah. I, I think that's it. You know, we, we, um-We derive so much of our identity-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … from those we love and who love us, so.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: Uh, I'm self-satisfied that it's a, it's a good tribe.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: They're all human, they're all foiled like me.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: And so-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Bill Barnum: … there's stuff to talk about.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. We're all on the journeys.

Scott Hammond: My-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … daughter-in-law so well s-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … put it. Um-

Bill Barnum: And we need strength for that journey.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, we do.

Bill Barnum: We do.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: Can't do it alone.

Scott Hammond: Amen to that. It's done in community, isn't it?

Bill Barnum: It is.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, with the tribe. Um, which is al- often the, a difficult part, 'cause here I go depending on you again.

Bill Barnum: Yep.

Scott Hammond: You know, and you gotta depend on me, and then here we go.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And what if we… Anyway, and then, then, then we go round and round, and there li- therein lies the beauty and the command to be, uh, to love one another.

Bill Barnum: I try to orient myself to being productive of something good.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Bill Barnum: So, and I think my private thoughts, I think about, "Well, what can I be doing that could be good?"

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: I love it.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So at the end of your life,

Scott Hammond: uh, as you-

Bill Barnum: Let me see

Scott Hammond: … as you ascend as, as you ascend up the-

Bill Barnum: Should I calendar this or?

Scott Hammond: The escalator.

Bill Barnum: Yeah. Boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop.

Scott Hammond: What would you, um, what would you prefer, desire, what are your druthers around, how would you like to be remembered?

Bill Barnum: I joked with you last time you asked me that question.

Scott Hammond: You did.

Bill Barnum: I said-

Scott Hammond: May- maybe that's a different answer today

Bill Barnum: … remember the punchline?

Scott Hammond: No, go for it.

Bill Barnum: Nobody cares.

Scott Hammond: Nobody cares.

Bill Barnum: Nobody cares.

Scott Hammond: I'll be forgotten within weeks.

Bill Barnum: Well, you know, there's so much true to that. I told you, uh, and I, I, I think, I think these thoughts. My great-great-grandfather was Dr. Reuben Gross, and he built the brick building at Fifth and F.

Scott Hammond: Fifth and F. Is it-

Bill Barnum: Arthur Johnson's building.

Scott Hammond: It's still there.

Bill Barnum: That building. Yeah, it's still there.

Scott Hammond: I just walked by it today.

Bill Barnum: He built that in 1903. Same year he built his home at Eighth and H. It's now the Historical Society.

Scott Hammond: Beautiful home.

Bill Barnum: Yeah, beautiful Queen Anne Victorian.

Scott Hammond: Oh, my gosh.

Bill Barnum: That was Dr. Gross.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: His wife was Mary Mean, so I had Mean and Gross relatives.

Scott Hammond: Mean.

Scott Hammond: Good one.

Bill Barnum: That ba-dum-bum cha.

Scott Hammond: Ba-dum-bum.

Bill Barnum: Um, and it's been… You know, he's my great-great-grandfather.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: Who, who thinks of my great-great-grandfather anymore?

Scott Hammond: Nobody. Handful.

Bill Barnum: I do.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: But you asked me.

Scott Hammond: But maybe that's enough.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: And so the baton falls-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Bill Barnum: … we grab it.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: We ride the escalator, and you look down and say, "Who am I gonna throw this at?"

Bill Barnum: "Tim."

Scott Hammond: Maybe just throw it back down.

Bill Barnum: Yeah. Clankety clank, clank, clank, clank.

Scott Hammond: Who grabs, who grabs it?

Bill Barnum: Yeah. Who's gonna grab it?

Scott Hammond: Yeah. I like that.

Bill Barnum: So yeah, I, I, um, so I don't really have grandiosity thought, or thoughts of what's my legacy. My legacy hopefully will be people who, uh, love and remember me while I'm loving and remembering them.

Scott Hammond: Good word.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I like it. And what about a tombstone inscription? Anything clever?

Bill Barnum: Nah.

Scott Hammond: Nah.

Bill Barnum: "Here lies…"

Scott Hammond: Yeah. "Here lies, here lie…" I like my boss's, "Doggone it. Doggone it. Do better."

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: He, he just, he will cuss, and then he says, "Just do better." And I'm going, you know, in the spirit that's given in, I hear that and like that. I, um, I think about mentoring. I think about-

Bill Barnum: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … how, how was I mentored and how can I mentor, even if it's momentary mentorship.

Bill Barnum: Sheldon was not a mentor.

Scott Hammond: Not a good mentor. No. May, may you be a good mentor-

Bill Barnum: That's right

Scott Hammond: … to all those that, that you, are in your life. And I, I think, you know, you don't have to look that far.

Bill Barnum: My sister got my mother a little wooden plaque. We all get the little wooden plaques. This one's cute.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Bill Barnum: It says, uh, "My name is Mom, but my real name is Mom, Mom, Mom, Mom, Mom, Mom." That's so cute.

Scott Hammond: I like that.

Bill Barnum: A lot of moms like it.

Scott Hammond: A lot of mom… That's, that, that fits.

Bill Barnum: Wouldn't put it on a epitaph, but you get the idea.

Scott Hammond: It fits, yeah.

Bill Barnum: It's cute.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Well, thanks for being here.

Bill Barnum: Thanks for inviting.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, no. What a joy. It's always fun.

Bill Barnum: Every 100 or so shows I'll show up.

Scott Hammond: Okay, yeah. Come on by. Just drop on in.

Bill Barnum: As you said, on the street, yous a-come on in.

Scott Hammond: "Hey, Bill. What are you doing?" Well, folks, if that concludes, uh, number 120 episodes, by the

Scott Hammond: way.

Bill Barnum: Not bad.

Scott Hammond: Congrats, and, uh, thanks for being here. If you want to like us, love us, make comments, send money, uh, we're on all the podcast platforms.

Bill Barnum: Money?

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Bill Barnum: Yeah. Oh, for you.

Scott Hammond: He said that. Well, for me.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Or for, like I said, you send money, I guess. You want it? Um, I, I was gonna ask for your website or your, your phone number or anything. You don't, you don't need that.

Scott Hammond: Uh-

Bill Barnum: Off s- off, off, offline.

Scott Hammond: Maybe somebody would meet s- you, somebody on the street, and go, "Hey, I saw your

Scott Hammond: show."

Bill Barnum: Oh, they do.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. "What do you-"

Bill Barnum: Oh, they do.

Scott Hammond: "How'd it go?" Yeah.

Bill Barnum: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And so, uh, y- reviews, like us, love us. We're on YouTube, we're on Access Humboldt TV. Bold Day of Giving tomorrow. Hey, and vote for us for, uh, Best of Humboldt, North Coast Journal, uh, Best Podcast. That'd be awesome if you have a mind to do so. In the meantime, we'll see you next week. Thanks for coming, and, uh, Scott Hammond, 100% Humboldt. And I was gonna say like a good neighbor, but that, that, that's copyright.

Bill Barnum: Is it?

Scott Hammond: It is.

Bill Barnum: Steal it.

Scott Hammond: Thanks, Bill.

Bill Barnum: Thanks. Bye-bye.