#47. From Classroom to Laureate: David Holper’s Journey through Eureka’s Poetry Scene and Beyond

Scott Hammond: Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls of all ages, it's the 100% Humboldt Podcast with my new best friend, David Holper.

David Holper: Thanks, Scott.

Scott Hammond: Hi, Dave.

David Holper: How are you doing?

Scott Hammond: I am well. It's just one of those interesting weeks before we lead up to Fourth of July, and it seems like then we launch into summer.

David Holper: Yeah, I'm ready.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: Long winters.

Scott Hammond: Oh my gosh. The longest winter ever on record. Did you have a long winter, Nick? Yeah, Nick's saying, "Psst." So, uh, tell, tell me who you are and what you do.

David Holper: Okay. Well, I'm a retired English teacher from College of the Redwoods.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: And, um, I've been a poet for a long, long time, and fiction writer, and back in… Just so this, I guess this is the way most people will know me is back in 2019, Leslie Castellano from the Eureka City Council-

Scott Hammond: Mm

David Holper: … reached out to me and said, uh, the City Council in coordination with the Ink People was gonna start a poet laureate, la… Excuse me, can't talk. Poet laureate program for the city of Eureka.

Scott Hammond: Oh.

David Holper: And wanted me to look over, like, this, uh, guidelines of what they were doing and, and just say, "Does this sound workable?"

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: And so I did. I gave her a few tips on, like, how to maybe do things a little bit differently, but most of it looked great.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: And I said, you know, "Looks good. And by the way, can I apply?" And she said, "Absolutely."

Scott Hammond: Sure.

David Holper: So I, I did.

Scott Hammond: And got it?

David Holper: And, and I wound up being the inaugural poet laureate for Eureka.

Scott Hammond: Of course you did. Yeah.

David Holper: Yeah. So.

Scott Hammond: So what is a laureate? So we, I asked-

David Holper: Right

Scott Hammond: … you before. And Joni, we were talking on the way over, I go, "Just find out what a laureate is."

David Holper: Yeah. So-

Scott Hammond: What is a poet l- laureate? You told me a little bit about the laurel leaves.

David Holper: Yeah, right. So the ancient Greeks, you know, for the festivals like-

Scott Hammond: Mm

David Holper: … for instance, the Olympics and, uh, things, they had a lot of games. When you'd win, you know, uh, a race or you'd win a poetry competition or a drama competition, they'd put these oak laurels on

David Holper: your head-

Scott Hammond: Mm

David Holper: … and you became the laureate.

Scott Hammond: Ah.

David Holper: And that tradition has followed us into Western civilization. Like for instance, Britain-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … has a poet laureate program, uh, that's gone on for 500 years. And just recently they had their first female poet laureate.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: Um, and the United States has had a poet laureate program for about 100 years.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: And, um, the current poet laureate is Ada Limón, who's a Californian. That's cool.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

David Holper: She doesn't live in California anymore, but, um-

Scott Hammond: And that's selected by whom?

David Holper: By the Librarian of Congress.

Scott Hammond: Ah.

David Holper: Yeah, so whoever the librarian is selects the poet laureate.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: And I know a little bit about this because when Billy Collins came and read at Humboldt State University probably, like, 10 years ago-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … after the reading was over, uh, we invited him, the group that I was in invited him out, and we sat with him for about three hours-

Scott Hammond: Cool

David Holper: … and asked him everything.

David Holper: Like-

Scott Hammond: Nice

David Holper: … what do you get if you're poet laureate? And he said, "You get an office-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … I guess in the Library of Congress, and you get-

Scott Hammond: Wow

David Holper: … your own secretary." And he said he went one time, sat at

David Holper: the desk-

David Holper: … met the secretary, and then didn't go back.

Scott Hammond: That was it.

David Holper: That was it.

Scott Hammond: Did he read some poet- poetry to you?

David Holper: Uh, he didn't read any poetry to us then, but he'd just finished, like, a two-hour reading, so it was great.

Scott Hammond: So he was… Yeah, so now it's time for cocktails at Plaza Grill.

David Holper: Yeah, right.

Scott Hammond: Better, better yet.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So i- is it, would he recite poetry or would you call it reading poetry? Or is it either, or?

David Holper: I think he was… I mean, I've seen him read a couple of times.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: Um, and he can do it by memory, or I've seen him do it with a, with a book or, you know, with a binder of-

Scott Hammond: Mm

David Holper: … of poems. Um, but oh, he's a great reader. Very funny, very-

Scott Hammond: So recite is then from memory.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Okay, gotcha.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: I can't do that.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: My memory's not good enough anymore-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

David Holper: … to hold a poem in my head.

Scott Hammond: What was your name again? I can't…

David Holper: I know.

Scott Hammond: Where am I?

David Holper: I forget.

Scott Hammond: Nick, Nick, where am I? What, what are all these lights?

David Holper: I, I love going to poetry slams where people can do, like, a three-minute poem off the top of their head.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: But, and I could do that when I was young, in my teens, but I can't do that anymore.

David Holper: My memory-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

David Holper: … I just can't hold… I get nervous and then the poem flies out of my head.

Scott Hammond: Speaking of Europe and poetry-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … where we go back to see our son Jesse. Hey, Jess. He live in Utrecht, uh, Netherlands, which is just south of Amsterdam about a half hour.

David Holper: Okay.

Scott Hammond: It's a smaller version of Amsterdam, and they have a poetry, uh, I don't know what you'd call it, but it, it's a brick, it's a brick line that they put one word per year.

David Holper: Oh, that's great.

Scott Hammond: So it's this, it's this thing that's been going on and on for, like, hundreds of

Scott Hammond: years.

David Holper: Wow.

Scott Hammond: And they add one brick per year, one word per year.

David Holper: One year.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, I have no idea. I haven't read it or anything, so. Anyway, so, uh, tell me more about your history. How did you get to Humboldt, m- meet-

David Holper: Oh

Scott Hammond: … your lovely wife and…?

David Holper: Well, um, that's an interesting story.

David Holper: I, um-

Scott Hammond: I'm counting on it.

David Holper: Yeah. I left home, um, in, let's see, it was

David Holper: about,

David Holper: uh, 1977-

Scott Hammond: Okay

David Holper: … and I joined the California Conservation Corps.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: And I was working as a firefighter in Calaveras County, um, just up above Angels Camp.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

David Holper: And, um, during that period of time, um, fought a lot of fires, and then I, I progressed to working on a portable sawmill for the CCC up in Calaveras Big Trees. And, um, and as I went up the feeding chain of, you know, being a corps member, uh, I shared a room with another guy named Al.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

David Holper: And one night, it was probably about 1:00 or 2:00 in the morning, Al came running in the room and said, "Dave, there's a fire. We gotta go."

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: So I did what I always did when there was a fire. I threw on my Nomex, I grabbed my gear bag, and I was running out the door. I ran out the front door of that building- … and I realized, oh, the kitchen and dining facility were on fire. He meant there's a fire at our fire center.

Scott Hammond: Right.

David Holper: Not we're gonna hop in the bus and go to San Diego. And, um, the fire was so hot it burned down that kitchen and dining facility in an hour.

Scott Hammond: Wow. Ah.

David Holper: So the State of California came in, surveyed the damage, and said, "We're gonna rebuild your dining facility and kitchen, and we're also gonna redo your dorms because they're from the 1970s."

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: "And, uh, so we're gonna move everybody into tents for the winter."In the foothills of the Sierras

Scott Hammond: In the winter

David Holper: In the winter. And it got cold there.

Scott Hammond: Oh, yeah.

David Holper: We were, uh … You know, we weren't, you know, up that high. We weren't up to Calaveras Big Trees, but it was cold enough, and it did snow there occasionally.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

David Holper: So I said, "This is crazy." So I had applied to Humboldt State,

David Holper: and I thought, "I better call them."

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: So I got on the telephone, I called, and I got a secretary who said, "Uh, let me put you through. Uh, there's somebody who can take care of your problem." And-

Scott Hammond: Oh

David Holper: … I'd spoke with a woman, and she said, "Well, I can't tell you right this moment, but call me back this afternoon and I'll let you know."

Scott Hammond: Oh.

David Holper: So I did. I called her back that afternoon, and she said, "You're in."

Scott Hammond: Just like that.

David Holper: And that's how I wound up at Humboldt State.

Scott Hammond: Wow. And where did you, where'd you come from before you were at, uh-

David Holper: Oh

Scott Hammond: … Conservation Corps?

David Holper: Yeah, I grew up in the Bay Area in Marin County.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So a Marin guy.

David Holper: Yeah, I'm a Marin guy.

Scott Hammond: What part of Marin?

David Holper: In Corte Madera, on the-

Scott Hammond: Sure

David Holper: … old hill that would-

Scott Hammond: Beautiful

David Holper: … go over to Mill Valley. Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, that's-

David Holper: Beautiful place to grow up.

Scott Hammond: Brother-in-law got married there. Beautiful.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I love that. So is that how you met, uh, your wife, at Humboldt?

David Holper: Well, no. Um, in, I think in 1980, there was a recession going on here. There wasn't much in the way …

David Holper: I, I put my feelers out for a few jobs. There were … There really wasn't much in the way of jobs.

Scott Hammond: Oh, yeah.

David Holper: And I thought, "I gotta make some money over the summer to help pay for

David Holper: next year." So there were two girls in my French class who told me one day that they were gonna go to Alaska and work in a cannery.

Scott Hammond: Oh, the cannery story, yeah.

David Holper: Yeah. And I said-

Scott Hammond: Another cannery story

David Holper: … I said, "That sounds great."

Scott Hammond: I, I remember those.

David Holper: So I hitchhiked to Seattle and met them there, and we hopped on the ferry and went up to Ketchikan.

Scott Hammond: Rad.

David Holper: And I got off in Ketchikan, and I never worked in a cannery.

David Holper: I, I drove-

Scott Hammond: Oh

David Holper: … a cab in Ketchikan for a while, worked on a fishing boat, worked on a dam that was being built there.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: Did all sorts of stuff. But I worked there for a couple summers and made enough to keep going to school.

Scott Hammond: Including a cannery?

David Holper: Never worked in a cannery. I went in a cannery one time, and it r-

Scott Hammond: And that was enough

David Holper: … and that was enough.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: It really smelled pretty bad, and I thought, "I don't wanna do this."

Scott Hammond: Hardly. Yeah, no, I remember fellow students at, uh, Humboldt State, now Cal Poly, if you-

David Holper: Right

Scott Hammond: … must, so kind of an ongoing joke.

Scott Hammond: The, um

Scott Hammond: … They would live there for six to eight weeks and live on the freezer-

Scott Hammond: … in the back of the cannery and rat hole every penny. And they would make eight or 10 grand, and that would feed them for the next school

Scott Hammond: year.

David Holper: Oh, absolutely.

Scott Hammond: And they could figure it out 'cause the wages were enough, and, you know, that's very different from Mom and Dad writ- writing a check.

David Holper: You know, I remember when I was driving a cab, I picked up people who were working in the canneries and drove them back to their camp sites, wherever they were camping.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: And frequently, they would have a garbage bag, typically a black garbage bag, with the salmon that had not been put in the cans yet.

Scott Hammond: Ah.

David Holper: And, and they would eat that.

Scott Hammond: That'd be their dinner.

David Holper: I tried it one time. I'm like, "I'm never eating that again."

Scott Hammond: Really? Was it just terrible?

David Holper: It's dreadful. Yeah, it was dreadful.

Scott Hammond: The stuff they wouldn't can.

David Holper: Well, before it's canned, it's not very good, and it's really salty.

Scott Hammond: Oh, really?

David Holper: And, yeah. You wouldn't want it.

Scott Hammond: Do they barbecue it, or do they just-

David Holper: Uh, they would just heat it up in a pan.

Scott Hammond: Gross.

David Holper: They were so tired by the time they did a shift at the cannery.

Scott Hammond: Oh, my gosh, yeah.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I've, I remember talking to different guys going, "That would, that would be a rough thing so."

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So you graduated from Humboldt State?

David Holper: But let me tell you the rest of the story-

Scott Hammond: Sure

David Holper: … 'cause you asked about my wife.

Scott Hammond: Please.

David Holper: So when I arrived in Ketchikan that day-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … I took a bus downtown because somebody had said that the Forest-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

David Holper: … Service was hiring, and I'd already been in the CCC.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: So I went down, and I wound up talking to a woman from the YCC, the Youth Conservation Corps.

Scott Hammond: Hm.

David Holper: And she said, "Well, do you have references?" And I said, "Sure, you can call the fire center and talk to my crew boss." And so she did.

Scott Hammond: Oh.

David Holper: And I was sitting in her glassed-in office in the Forest Service building, and I saw this cute redhead walking by, and I thought-

Scott Hammond: Oh

David Holper: … "Oh, I'd like to get to know her."

Scott Hammond: Ah.

David Holper: And it turned out that she was the driver for the YCC.

Scott Hammond: Ah.

David Holper: And that's how I met my wife, Michelle.

Scott Hammond: That's funny.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So did you get on … You got on with the YCC then?

David Holper: Yeah. And-

Scott Hammond: And then she was your driver

David Holper: … she drove me around Ketchikan.

Scott Hammond: Hm.

David Holper: And I got f- on a float plane and flew out to Prince of Wales Island, where I was out in the boonies-

Scott Hammond: Whoa

David Holper: … doing stream cleaning for-

Scott Hammond: Does she still drive you around ever?

David Holper: Yes, sometimes she does.

Scott Hammond: Sometimes. And sometimes you drive.

David Holper: Yes.

Scott Hammond: I like it. So you were a professor then at, at CR?

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Okay. How long were you at College of the Redwoods?

David Holper: Uh, 23 years.

Scott Hammond: Which it sits right over here on my map.

David Holper: Oh, yeah.

Scott Hammond: It's right over there on the, on the-

David Holper: I can see it

Scott Hammond: … middle part. Yeah.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, you can see it. Um, so how many year, 27?

David Holper: 23 years.

Scott Hammond: 23, wow.

David Holper: Plus another 10 years teaching in Sacramento.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: What'd you, what'd you teach there?

David Holper: I taught at a couple high schools, Catholic high schools.

David Holper: Um-

Scott Hammond: Oh

David Holper: … taught English, the same thing, composition, literature, creative writing.

Scott Hammond: So left Humboldt and came back?

David Holper: Yeah, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: So I feel like I won the lottery when I got the job at CR.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: I just-

Scott Hammond: Oh

David Holper: … felt like, oh, so blessed to be back on the North Coast.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Well, it's a state job, and it's got Cal Per- It's, uh, it's retirement. It's got all the-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … things you, one would like.

David Holper: And we were starting a family, so, you know, we could have our kids here-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … you know, in, right in the heart of nature.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: And it wasn't a long drive to the beach-

Scott Hammond: Right

David Holper: … or to the forest or the mountains.

Scott Hammond: Our date night is five minutes to Huda Point and Camel Rock.

David Holper: Oh, my gosh.

Scott Hammond: Throw the van open, and it's picnic time.

David Holper: I was telling Nick before we started, all it would take for me to remember how blessed I am to live in a place like this is go to a conference in LA or Chicago or wherever, and I would fly back in, I'd get off the plane, and I'd think,

David Holper: "Wow."

Scott Hammond: What am I doing?

David Holper: Yeah. I don't mind going to those conferences.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: But every time I'd come back, I'd think, "This is the place. This is where, this is where my heart is."

Scott Hammond: It's really interesting. Yeah, and it take- sometimes it takes people to leave to get to know that, or it takes COVID to go-

David Holper: Right

Scott Hammond: … here's three and a half years of lockdown, and you want to Let's go to the beach again. That sounds about right.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Oh, this is, place is magic.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And Joni and I looked at everywhere, Chico, Slow, Medford, Eugene, whatever. It's like, "Chico? It's 112 there today. Who wants to-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … I don't wanna be there."

David Holper: I lived in Sacramento for 10 years.

David Holper: That-

Scott Hammond: You know.

David Holper: I, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Oh my gosh, yeah, it gets so warm.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So you're retired now, so what do you do with your re- what are you doing in

Scott Hammond: retirement?

David Holper: Well, I'm doing a lot of writing.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: I'm working on novels.

Scott Hammond: Oh, cool.

David Holper: Um, I got my Master's of Fine Arts, um, i- in fiction, but I'd never had any time to write a whole novel when I was teaching.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

David Holper: So now I'm working on those novels, you know, perfecting my craft and aiming to get one of those published.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: But, um, in addition, I guess for about 10 years, um, I'd wanted to hike the Camino

David Holper: de Santiago-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … in Spain.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: Uh, and for people who are unfamiliar with that, um, there are a variety of routes that people take, and the reason why they go to the city of Santiago is because, uh, Ca- according to Catholic lore in Spain, St. James is buried there, and, um, they call him Santiago. They don't refer to him as St.

David Holper: James.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

David Holper: And so starting in about the year 1000, people started doing pilgrimages to Santiago-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … to go see St. James' remains. And, um, the most popular route runs from France just over the border-

Scott Hammond: Mm

David Holper: … in a little town called Pied, uh, St. Jean Pied de Port, and it goes pretty much due west right through the Pyrenees and then across the plains of Spain-

Scott Hammond: Oh

David Holper: … to the city of Santiago, 500 miles.

David Holper: So.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: That's the one I did.

Scott Hammond: Our friend Paul just did that from church, Catalyst Church in Oregon.

David Holper: Oh, yeah.

Scott Hammond: He did part of it. I think he did m- uh, maybe 200 miles of it.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: He said it rained a bit.

David Holper: Yeah, I have friends who are, just finished, uh, the northern route along the coast today, and they were walking in rain for several days. I was fortunate when I went. It was pretty dry. It rained on us a couple times-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … but not, no real soakers.

Scott Hammond: Would it be normal for me to start thinking in poetry, being around a poet?

Scott Hammond: 'Cause-

David Holper: No, yeah

Scott Hammond: … I'm thinking of the rain in Spain and-

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: … plains and…

David Holper: Yeah, there was a lot of joking about that among the group that I-

Scott Hammond: Sure

David Holper: … walked with.

Scott Hammond: We had poets?

David Holper: Yeah. Because, um, the f- that plain in Spain is called the Meseta.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: And there's joking among pilgrims, and I think has been for a long time, that that's where you go crazy because-

Scott Hammond: That's what he said

David Holper: … it's really flat, and there are-

Scott Hammond: There's nothing out there

David Holper: … there's no trees. It's wheat fields as far as you can see in any

David Holper: direction.

Scott Hammond: Huh.

David Holper: And it, and it gets hot, and I was hiking through the Meseta in July, and the first part wasn't so hot.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: But then I stopped in Leon to visit some friends for a few days, and when I started again, it was 105 every day for two weeks.

Scott Hammond: Ouch. Wow.

David Holper: Yeah, and I'd get up at 4:30 in the morning-

Scott Hammond: Get-

David Holper: … and get out and start hiking.

Scott Hammond: Get your miles.

David Holper: Yeah, get my miles before it got too hot.

Scott Hammond: How far did you… Did you do the whole thing?

David Holper: Yeah, I did the whole 500 miles.

Scott Hammond: That's pretty rad.

David Holper: Yeah. It was a great experience.

Scott Hammond: That's cool.

David Holper: Yeah, and I thought I was gonna go by myself. I thought I w- this is my, like, my, uh, my pilgrimage to set aside, um, the first part of my… or the second third of my life, the work part-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … and to prepare for the last part of my life.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: Um, and the f- at the end of the first day, so it's 15 miles through the Pyrenees, and it takes you to a town called Roncesvalles. And when I got there, there's a very large, um, monastery complex that must have been built, you know, in the medieval era. Um, and it's been turned into a giant hostel.

Scott Hammond: Nice.

David Holper: So, like, the main building has four floors full of beds. And there's so many people staying there that they do dinner in shifts. And so I had my little plastic ticket, told me when to go to dinner, and I met a guy named Pop from Ohio.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

David Holper: And he was the first person in the group that I wound up walking with, and by the time three days had gone by and we were walking into Pamplona, there were seven of us going together.

Scott Hammond: Oh.

David Holper: And we're all still in touch with one another.

Scott Hammond: That's neat.

David Holper: Um, yeah, so we had a great time together.

Scott Hammond: Makes for friends.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And hiking's good for that.

David Holper: Oh, it's terrific.

Scott Hammond: You can talk.

David Holper: Yeah, oh, you can talk, and every day would start with a walk in the dark and then coffee and-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … you know, some pastry, and then at the end of the day, there'd be a cold beer and some chips or pretzels or whatever.

Scott Hammond: Very nice.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: You earned that beer.

David Holper: Oh, my goodness, did we ever.

Scott Hammond: And all those pretzels.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So, uh, hello, Reese Hughes, the, uh, hiking guy, and Joni, the hiking gal, that have encouraged me to maybe hike a little bit more.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Uh, yes, I will. Promise.

David Holper: Okay. There you go.

Scott Hammond: So, uh, hey, I think it's about time for a, a poem. What do you th- what do you think, or-

David Holper: I think that's great.

Scott Hammond: You, you read some, something for us? I'll let you, uh…

David Holper: Yeah, you want a shorter one or a longer one?

Scott Hammond: Uh, let's, let's start easy.

David Holper: Well, let's start with a hiking poem.

Scott Hammond: That, this seems appropriate.

David Holper: This is called Hiking the New Year. So I wrote it in January of this year, just thinking about, you know, hiking, 'cause I've done a lot of hiking in the last few years.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: So here we go. Hiking the New Year. The wind offers the smell of rain, and more rain. I celebrate by lacing up my boots. I begin with the hills in the park nearby, legs burning from practicing nothing diligently all fall. Days later, I hike out to headwaters, find myself soaked in sweat and struggling to catch my breath, trudging up the two-mile hill above Three Mile Bridge. I hike out to Fern Canyon, almost nine miles out and back under a damp gray sky. I walk utterly alone, only a chickadee's song to shape the silence of the redwoods. She reminds me of the girls in my high school choir, their dowdy clo- who seemed almost invisible with their plain faces, their dowdy clothes, until they began to sing. And only then would you discover how little you knew about them. Until then, at most you saw was your own reflection on the surface of the waters. I don't know where a single one of them lives now, or what they do.Or who loves whom. But walking into the mist gradually dissolving into rain, I hope they're all still singing in the shower, at a coffee shop, in another choir, opening their mouths and awakening us all to our blindness. This foolish assumption we already understood the universe and our pale place within it.

Scott Hammond: Nice.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I like that.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Do you like that? Nick says he likes it. Thumbs up.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, that was great. No, good one. Those are, uh, those are hikes that I actually understand a little bit of.

David Holper: Yeah, right.

Scott Hammond: Toni's taken me on a lot of, lot of huks, hikes including Freshwater.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I'm sorry, uh, Headwaters and, and Freshwater.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And, um, she just did a 14-miler yesterday up at Prairie Creek.

David Holper: Oh, good for her.

Scott Hammond: Down to… They did a big circle, a rhododendron tr- trail and everything, so.

David Holper: That's great.

Scott Hammond: Very cool. So-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … how, how does Humboldt inspire you as an

Scott Hammond: artist-

David Holper: Well-

Scott Hammond: … and as a poet and writer?

David Holper: Um, I think when I first got here, I wound up taking a couple creative writing classes right away, and I was really fortunate at then Humboldt State. Um, the two creative writing teachers who were married to one another and shared a single position-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

David Holper: … uh, were Jorie Graham and Jim Galvin.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Holper: And, um, Jorie Graham is probably one of the best-known poets in the United States at this point.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: She holds the rhetoric chair at Harvard, and she and Jim Galvin aren't married anymore, but Jim Galvin teaches at the University of Iowa, and they're both really noteworthy.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: Yeah, he's more a fiction writer, but he's still a poet as well. And, and she, among intellectual poets, is probably the premier intellectual poet of the, uh, US.

Scott Hammond: They're part of the English department at Humboldt State?

David Holper: Yes. And so, uh, Jim-

Scott Hammond: In the day.

David Holper: Yeah. And Jim taught fiction and Jorie taught poetry, and I got to study with both of them.

Scott Hammond: Cool.

David Holper: And, um, they introduced me to what then was the poetry scene at the Jambalaya-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … which was the happening place for poetry in Humboldt County.

Scott Hammond: That's right. That's right.

David Holper: And, um, they stayed until, uh, I was a junior, and then they asked me if I would edit The Toyon, the literary magazine-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … at Humboldt, so I got involved in that.

David Holper: Um-

Scott Hammond: Is that still published, Dave?

David Holper: Yeah, it's still published.

Scott Hammond: Is it?

David Holper: It's still coming out. It's very different than it was then, but-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … um, it's become a class now.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: Um, then it was sort of a fly-by-night thing.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: I just asked my friends, "Help me select the poems and the stories."

Scott Hammond: Throw it into a magazine.

David Holper: Yeah. And I was at Bug Press doing the layout one night, you know.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: Um, yeah, so it was really, um, sort of… The, the torch was passed from one person to another.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Remember Jim at Bug Press? He used to own it.

David Holper: Yes, I do.

Scott Hammond: He was a neat guy.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: He was. We used to work out at HealthSport once in a while, and he was just always a

Scott Hammond: nice man.

David Holper: I can't believe that they-

Scott Hammond: Really mellow

David Holper: … opened it, you know, that they opened up Bug Press to a bunch of students to lay out The Toyon. It was-

Scott Hammond: Kinda cool.

David Holper: Yeah, it was very cool. So I learned a lot about layout.

Scott Hammond: Uh-huh.

David Holper: I learned what it was to be an editor of a literary journal.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Holper: Um, I started writing and taking myself a little more seriously, and that wound up leading to me applying for an MFA, a Master's of Fine Arts, in creative writing, studying fiction at UMass Amherst.

Scott Hammond: Was that r- distance education, or did you actually go?

David Holper: No, I actually went there for three years and studied.

Scott Hammond: Oh, wow.

David Holper: Yeah.

David Holper: So-

Scott Hammond: How far is that out of Boston?

David Holper: Um, it's several hours.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

David Holper: It's kind of like… It's r- It's sort of s- uh, near Springfield.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Very good.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: So I-

Scott Hammond: That's, that's a doctorate when you're done? Or a master's?

David Holper: Um, i- an MFA is usually considered what's called a terminal degree. Not because you die of it, but because once you've finished an MFA, and they're usually in creative pursuits like in dance or photography or sculpture or things of that nature-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … then instead of getting a PhD, you go on and do your creative work.

Scott Hammond: Oh, neat.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So that's part of the degree is get carrying on.

David Holper: Yeah. So I've gone on to publish three books of poetry. Now it's novels-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … and lots and lots of poems and stories along the way.

Scott Hammond: Nice.

David Holper: Um-

Scott Hammond: How many books?

David Holper: Uh, three books right now.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: Three books of poems. Um, and then I've written four novels now.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: Yeah. So-

Scott Hammond: Are they all fiction?

David Holper: They're all fiction.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: And, um, yeah, and they're all being sent out to agents and publishers, and hopefully I'll sell one of them one of these days.

Scott Hammond: There you go.

David Holper: Yeah. So I'm excited about getting those out into the world.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I have a published book called The Everyday Dad.

David Holper: Did you-

Scott Hammond: Actually, it was self-published. I-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … I, I correct myself 'cause that's a big correction.

David Holper: Not anymore.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: No. I think, you know, um, people ask me, you know, "Are you gonna be successful?" And I say, "I'm gonna be persistent until I

David Holper: succeed."

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Holper: And the reason why is there's a-

Scott Hammond: Good one

David Holper: … there's a young gal, or she was a young gal, a gal named Amanda Hocking, who… I think it's from Minneapolis, and she took a couple of… After high school, she took a couple of community college classes in creative writing and then started writing novels. So she wrote a first novel, sent it out. No agent, publisher. Nobody would touch it. Just got form letters back.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Holper: And, um, she kept on writing. So she wrote book after book after book. She wrote 11 books, none of which were published.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: That's just an amazing feat, I think, that, you know, with no recognition. And then on the 12th book, she decided before she wrote it, she should go do some research on the marketplace to find out what was being published, and here's what she did. She went to the local Walmart.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: She saw that it was mostly paranormal romance on the shelves.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: She went home, and in 16 days, she wrote a paranormal romance.

David Holper: And then-

Scott Hammond: And changed her name to J.K.

Scott Hammond: Rowling.

David Holper: Wouldn't that be fitting? No. Then there was, uh, something going on with the Muppets in Chicago, and she was really into Muppets-

Scott Hammond: Huh

David Holper: … and she wanted to go see it, and she needed $300 to be able to go see

David Holper: the Muppets.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: So, um-She decided she was gonna self-publish her 12th book on Amazon as a KDP book, and, um, and make $300. That's all she needed.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: So she put it up there, and it started receiving a lot of positive

David Holper: reviews. And she made the $300, went to the thing in Chicago, saw the Muppets, came home, and the book began to sell quite a bit.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Holper: And pretty soon she was making, I think, about $10,000 a week off her book.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: And then Bedford, St. Martin stepped in and offered her a book deal because she was so successful.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: And she, at the time she had that success, she was one of the top 10 authors in the United States.

Scott Hammond: Really? Okay.

David Holper: Yeah. So, you know, I think it's just a matter of perseverance. You have to keep at it until you succeed.

Scott Hammond: That's really true for all of us.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. The, um… Do you ever know the guys at One Way Bookstore?

David Holper: Oh, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Produced a lot of McDonald's books.

David Holper: Yep.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: They were kinda local, local legends.

Scott Hammond: So ki- kinda back to where my question was going, I'll make it-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … a little bit more specific. So when, when you go out in nature and you're hiking, is that, does that promote your poetry, your internal-

David Holper: Oh, yeah

Scott Hammond: … poet?

David Holper: Yeah. I'm, I've written a number of poems about, um, the local area, about hiking out to Headwaters.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: Before it was illegal, I wanted to go see Hyperion Tree, which is in Redwood National Park. It's the tallest tree in the world.

Scott Hammond: Oh, yeah.

David Holper: Um, so-

Scott Hammond: But you can't see it anymore.

David Holper: No, you can't go there.

Scott Hammond: You could.

David Holper: You could, but I think there's a $5,000 fine for going to see it. But before it was illegal-

Scott Hammond: Let's, let me show everybody where it is on the map.

David Holper: Oh, yeah.

Scott Hammond: It's, it's right at, on that upper

Scott Hammond: corner.

David Holper: That's right.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: Now everyone knows.

Scott Hammond: We've n- we've narrowed it down.

David Holper: Yeah. Well, I, I found the directions, and I went and I saw

David Holper: it.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: And, um, and the, the thing about going to see Hyperion is when you're on the ground, you can't tell it's the tallest tree in the world.

Scott Hammond: Right.

David Holper: It looks very similar to other trees around it.

Scott Hammond: It's in the Redwood Creek basin somewhere-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … up that way. Okay.

David Holper: Yeah. And, um, so I went home and I wrote a poem about that, and it turned out to be a pretty good poem. Um, and yeah, so I've written, uh, poetry

David Holper: about when I was overseeing… I worked in Redwood National Park one summer before grad school.

Scott Hammond: Oh, wow.

David Holper: I ran the YACC with crews, you know, teenage crews from, uh, Arcata and Crescent City, and two adult supervisors, and one of the things, the f- one of the first jobs we had to do was, uh, finish the Skunk Cabbage Trail-

Scott Hammond: All right

David Holper: … in Redwood National Park. And most of it had been built, but we built the last section of it out to the

David Holper: beach.

Scott Hammond: Is that in Prairie Creek area?

David Holper: Yes.

Scott Hammond: Or is it elsewhere?

David Holper: Yeah, it's just north of Orick. As you're leaving Orick, maybe be- after you turn, you know, at the turnoff to the Bald Hills, you go around a turn, and then it's just to the left.

Scott Hammond: And you go left.

David Holper: And it's marked.

Scott Hammond: Does it go out to the beach?

David Holper: Yeah, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: So what you do is-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

David Holper: … to, you go down a, a road and it dead ends at the start of the Skunk Cabbage Trail, and then I don't know, it's about eight miles, if I remember correctly-

Scott Hammond: Oh, wow

David Holper: … out to, out to the beach.

Scott Hammond: I think Joanie's walked it. Said it's pre- beautiful.

David Holper: Yeah, it's very nice.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. She's part of the Fortuna Ol- Old Farts-

David Holper: Oh, yeah, I've done that

Scott Hammond: … hiking group.

David Holper: I've hiked with them.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, they're hardcore.

David Holper: Yes, they are.

Scott Hammond: Hey, shout out to the Old Farts.

David Holper: Oh my gosh.

Scott Hammond: All of them.

David Holper: Especially the Wednesday group.

Scott Hammond: Oh, she went, yeah, it's yesterday. She goes, "There's one guy and he just, he just books it and then he gets faster."

David Holper: Oh.

Scott Hammond: "And you gotta keep up with him."

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: There's some really e- experienced hikers in that group.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. And if you're a half hour early, you're on time.

David Holper: Right.

Scott Hammond: If you're on time-

David Holper: You're, you're, you're late

Scott Hammond: … they're already in Orick, man.

David Holper: I know.

Scott Hammond: They're gone.

David Holper: I know.

Scott Hammond: Why, why is everybody so late?

David Holper: But they're a great group.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. No, she really enjoys it. There's, apparently they're really good at… I've hiked a little bit with the Friday group, um, down at Hooked Slough and-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … um, Table Bluff out that way.

David Holper: Right.

Scott Hammond: Pretty fun.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Lot of good hikes.

David Holper: Well, can I give you another piece of inspiration?

Scott Hammond: I am ready. Let's do this thing.

David Holper: Okay. Well-

Scott Hammond: Absolutely

David Holper: … since we've been talking about Cal Poly Humboldt, um, this was an experience in that French class where I met the two young women who I went to Alaska with. Um, but there was another young woman in that class, and this poem is sort of dedicated to her.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

David Holper: It's called Crush.

Scott Hammond: Crush.

David Holper: "While I was muddling through college French, there was this girl, blonde, petite, perfect, a magnet of grace and intellect, realigning my sense of

David Holper: gravity. I sat several seats behind her, watching, waiting. All semester, I listened to her perfect pronunciations, the lilt of her voice making words into magic. Her sense of style rearranged the order of everything." "Her fine pearl colored, colored blouses, designer black jeans, those leather boots, the way she bent all the light toward her when she walked into the room. I thought, if only I could just tell her how the scent of her every Tuesday and Thursday afternoon transformed my heart into a raven, sitting on some remote redwood branch, calling out into the emptiness, bringing treasures, suffering for even a morsel of affection. I was not very good at French, to be honest. I didn't give it enough time, only wanting to saunter the streets of Montmartre, pen stories like Hemingway. One day, I decided French meant nothing. What mattered was the courage to speak to her. During a break, I followed her out of the classroom, down the hall to the elevator. When the doors sealed us into silence, I summoned everything I had and asked her. Predictably, she said no. She already lived with someone, a professor, I recall. What happened after that? Well, we ossified in that tomb, listening to the sound of our stilled breath. The doors opened only after all the oxygen was gone."She disappeared, returning into her perfect life and I pressed the down button back to hell where I would rent a room for many seasons still, carving my initials into the walls, thinking mistakenly, "My God, there is no place lower to go

David Holper: than this."

Scott Hammond: That's pretty good.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I like that.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: 'Cause we all knew that gal.

David Holper: Oh, we did.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: She was amazing, and she smelled really good. That's, like, I'm glad you caught that.

David Holper: Oh, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Um, yeah.

David Holper: Yeah, and I didn't make that part up about the elevator either.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, and you mustered the courage.

David Holper: Yeah, to ask her. And she said, "Well, not really."

Scott Hammond: I live, I live with a professor 'cause-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … professors are very moral and they never date their students.

David Holper: I guess in those days that wasn't so much an issue.

Scott Hammond: No, you know, I had a, um, Bob St. Peter's by name. He was a, uh, I'm a recreation major, which, uh, my kids go, "Is that like recess? What is that?"

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And I go, "Don't worry about it. It's liberal arts," and I, I did okay.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And, um, but he married Valerie, and I'm sure she was over 18.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So it was probably legal in the state of California.

David Holper: I'm sure.

Scott Hammond: Uh, although he was 87, you know? Doubt he was about-

David Holper: Not quite that much

Scott Hammond: … he seemed like he was pretty old.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Anyway, so, uh, hey, kudos to all you professors up at Humboldt.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Um.

David Holper: Absolutely.

Scott Hammond: No, great-

David Holper: I had some great professors up there.

Scott Hammond: I love that. So what do you see for, uh, our county, um, for the people, for the jobs, for the issues? What, what do you, what's your Dave Holper perspective? What do you, what do you, what do you see? What do you wanna see?

David Holper: Well, um, before I moved back to Humboldt, my wife and I lived in Sacramento for 10 years.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

David Holper: And I, Sacramento has a lot of things going for it. We had a lot of friends there.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: Um, my wife got sick 'cause she had cancer and got great treatment at Sutter Cancer Center, and so many people-

Scott Hammond: Mm

David Holper: … from the high school where I taught and the church where we went to supported us through that time, and I just can't thank all those people enough, um, because we could not have done that on our own. Um, but culturally, I felt like Sacramento didn't have a lot to offer.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: And when we moved back here, this place was just thriving with artists and poets and writers.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

David Holper: Um, and it felt really vibrant and alive.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

David Holper: And one of the things that I, that I felt really blessed by, the Jambalaya Scene had long passed by

David Holper: that point.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

David Holper: But there were two thriving slam scenes going on. There was one at Northtown Coffee in Arcata-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … that, uh, Will Gibson and Dylan Collins helped to get going and, and it ran for a number of years.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: Um, and college students from Humboldt would come down, and it was really very political and really energetic, and-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … it was a great place to see performance. And, uh, meanwhile, in Eureka, starting at The Accident Slam, or at The Accident Gallery, and then moving to Siren Song Tavern, Therese Fitzmaurice and, uh, Vanessa Pike-Verdiak ran a slam for I think 14 years.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: Amazing. Um, they took n- numerous teams to nationals to compete-

Scott Hammond: Wow

David Holper: … um, in the national slam competition. So it was, it was just a, a great proving ground and a place for young poets to get out there and try their stuff.

David Holper: And-

Scott Hammond: Wow

David Holper: … and these, some of these were high school students.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: You know, they weren't all college students. And then people in the community like myself who would come in and perform. And that, I mean, I would've never written three books of poems without, uh, the Eureka Slam being active because once a month I'd go down there and do a few poems and, uh, those poems wound up, you know, being the kind of backbone s- of the books that I wrote.

Scott Hammond: Safe, safe place, it sounds like.

David Holper: Yeah, a great place to-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

David Holper: … meet people. So I met a lot of poets, um, in the county. And then at CR I would invite writers as well, so I

David Holper: met-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … many of the writers who were active in the community.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. I like, so I, I come from a Toastmaster background where you give speeches, and there's-

David Holper: Right

Scott Hammond: … 6,000 chapters in the world, and it's a formatted meeting, and they do them once a week or twice a month, whatever. So, but it was a safe space where people could come in-

David Holper: Right

Scott Hammond: … and tell a story, read, read their s- their icebreaker story about their life.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: A persuasive speech and have that safe space where they could get good or really good.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Some people got really good.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And you're going, "Wow, that, that person ratcheted their game up really big time in 12 months."

David Holper: Well, I remember when you were doing that, and we talked about that and how excited you were about that, and I-

Scott Hammond: It was fun.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: I, I think you learned a lot from that.

Scott Hammond: I took a lot, yeah. My dad said learn speed reading, but better yet, learn how to speak.

David Holper: Publicly.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: Yeah, that's a really important thing.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. You know, some people have a way with words and others no have

Scott Hammond: way.

David Holper: Yeah. And that, that's the number-one fear I think that people have in, you know, in society in general-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

David Holper: … is public speaking.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, and, um-

David Holper: They're definitely afraid of it

Scott Hammond: … and I think with poetry that what I've seen, and, and very, not enough, I wanna see more, you made me hungry for this, is that it, it, it is performance art. It's not only just speaking and addressing an audience, it's you could really do stuff.

David Holper: Right.

Scott Hammond: You can gesticulate, you can dress up, you can do a thing and have a prop and whatever.

David Holper: Yeah. And when I taught poetry at CR-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … um, I stumbled across a book by June Jordan called, um, I think Poetry for the People or Poetry for the Revolution. I can't remember.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

David Holper: But it was a great book. It was really eye-opening. And as a result I r- I redid the way that I was teaching poetry. And so every class was geared toward finishing some work and then presenting it in a public reading at the end of the class.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: So the first year we did it-Um, we just did it in a classroom at CR, in one of the lecture classrooms. But I thought, "This is not the right venue." So we wound up renting the Morris Graves, uh, Rotunda-

Scott Hammond: Better

David Holper: … the next year.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: And we turned out an audience of over 100 people.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: Which for a poetry reading in Humboldt is quite-

Scott Hammond: Pretty good.

David Holper: That's pretty good. And so for five years I did those readings at… And they were, they were a big deal. pe- lots of people would come out-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

David Holper: … and see those. And I told the students, "You're gonna craft this reading. You're gonna… I'm gonna get up, I'm gonna introduce you, and then it's

David Holper: all you."

Scott Hammond: It's all you.

David Holper: It's like, yeah. You guys have to figure out, are we gonna do it in costumes? Are you gonna use props? Will there be food and drink? Like, what, whatever you want.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: But you have to do it. It's your reading.

Scott Hammond: So they could really get creative.

David Holper: Yeah. And you have to name yourselves as a group of poets.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: And so they'd come up with a name. You have to create the poster for it. Uh, they went on KHUM and did readings of their poetry to help promote

David Holper: the event.

Scott Hammond: Very cool.

David Holper: Yeah. So I really got them to get out into the community.

Scott Hammond: I like that.

David Holper: So they learned not only how to write a poem, but how to perform it, and how to put on the reading.

David Holper: Um-

Scott Hammond: Speaking of which, I bet you have another poem with you.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Can we do one, one from the book?

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I like that Scottish, Scottish term.

David Holper: Right.

Scott Hammond: But if there's another one that's more-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … clever, that would be cool.

David Holper: So this latest book is called Language Lessons: A Linguistic Hijrah. And a hijrah is like a spiritual journey.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: And, um, there are, just so you understand how the book is structured, there are 109 poems in this, which is to mimic the japamala, which are the prayer beads that Hindus use.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Holper: Uh, the h- 108 prayers basically on the japamala, and then the final bead is like the divine bead.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Holper: So, um, that was the idea, is to do 108 plus a special one at the end.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And these are w- from words that-

David Holper: That are untranslatable. They're, they're, they, you can explain them in

David Holper: English-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

David Holper: … but they're not, uh, there's no one word.

Scott Hammond: We don't have it.

David Holper: We don't have it.

Scott Hammond: It's so limited. Actually, when you start reading the Greek and different things,

Scott Hammond: you go-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … English is so limiting.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I love it. Um-

David Holper: Let me find you a good one here.

Scott Hammond: And real quick, um, bef- when you're finished with this, I'd like you to,

Scott Hammond: um, tell us how to get ahold of you and buy-

David Holper: Oh, yeah

Scott Hammond: … the product and, uh-

David Holper: Sure

Scott Hammond: … we'll do the shout-out here and, and one at the end, but-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … uh, y- we, we could buy your work.

David Holper: Yes.

Scott Hammond: We could find it.

David Holper: Uh, it's easy to find.

Scott Hammond: You're online?

David Holper: I am. I've got my own website, davidholper.com. Couldn't be any easier than that.

Scott Hammond: You're on Facebook and-

David Holper: I'm on Facebook. I'm on Instagram.

Scott Hammond: Nice.

David Holper: And I've got my own website.

Scott Hammond: Do you do TikTok readings?

David Holper: Uh, I did TikTok for a little while, and I didn't really care for it.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: But I did start a YouTube channel, so there's a bunch of, uh-

Scott Hammond: Oh

David Holper: … performances on, of me in front of a camera doing poems.

Scott Hammond: Plus you're on Access Humboldt too.

David Holper: Yes.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: Right.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: So it's not hard to find me.

Scott Hammond: See you frequently on that, yeah.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: It's good.

David Holper: Okay. So this is, um, an Italian word. The word is gattara. It's an elderly woman who cares for stray

David Holper: cats.

Scott Hammond: Ah.

David Holper: Yes.

Scott Hammond: It's a good- … next, next neighbor down the street.

David Holper: There she is.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: You know this story. In the news, they were reporting that when the old lady died, they found 100 cats in her house, all well-fed. Strays, every one, living in the lap of luxury. Don't be jealous if in her will she left her millions to the mangy lot of them. Perhaps you were a stray once too, and understand what it is to be picked up by the scruff and

David Holper: saved.

Scott Hammond: Nice.

Scott Hammond: I like that.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: That's a good one.

David Holper: Okay, I'll do a couple of these-

Scott Hammond: Sure, go for it

David Holper: … so you get a sense of this.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, take your time.

David Holper: Um, yeah, let's see.

Scott Hammond: I like this.

David Holper: Yeah, these were fun to write. And I wrote these really quickly.

David Holper: Um… Oh, here's an interesting word. Oh, no, this is too serious. I want a, I want some lighter ones.

David Holper: Uh…

Scott Hammond: I like the scotch one.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: That was a good one. What is, there's a word-

David Holper: Tartle

Scott Hammond: … tartle.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: When you meet someone and you-

David Holper: You forgot their name

Scott Hammond: … forgot their name, and you're introducing, "This is my friend." "Hey, you."

David Holper: Right.

Scott Hammond: Joni and I always talk about that, uh, when you see somebody and you f- I know totally who this person is, but it's like, "Hey-

David Holper: What's your name?

Scott Hammond: … you."

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: "How are you doing?"

David Holper: Yes, because you have no idea.

Scott Hammond: So hard. Oh, some of those are weird rescues.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Especially when you get advanced maturity like you and I.

David Holper: Yeah, right.

Scott Hammond: It's like, I've met a lot of people in my life.

David Holper: And I have-

Scott Hammond: I, I recognize-

David Holper: I have a hard time with names. Just like memorizing poems. My memory's not as good as it was when I was-

Scott Hammond: It's okay

David Holper: … a teenager. Okay, um, this is a Bantu word. Uh, the word is ilunga, and it's defined as a person who's ready to forgive any abuse for the first time, to tolerate it a second time, but never a third time.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Holper: And in the opinion of 1,000 linguists surveyed on the subject, it is the world's most difficult word to translate.

Scott Hammond: Huh.

David Holper: The first time she says, "Okay, everyone's human. Everyone makes mistakes." The second time she tolerates your stupidity, but she gives you that look as if to say, "Try me again and die in my sight." Yes, you best heed the warning before you figure out the difference between figurative and literal.

Scott Hammond: Heed the warning?

David Holper: Heed the warning. The look is enough.

Scott Hammond: Ah. I think I know that look. I've, I've seen that look a couple times.

David Holper: I have too, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Ah, the look.

David Holper: Yes. This is a great word. I'm not gonna read the poem, but this is one of my favorite words in the collection. It's a German word, it's a noun, and it's backfeffengesicht, and it's a face in need of a

David Holper: fist.

Scott Hammond: Oh, that- You sure you don't wanna read it?

David Holper: Okay. It's not a f-

Scott Hammond: Face

David Holper: It should be funnier, but-

Scott Hammond: I've met a few of those-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … today, I think.

David Holper: Haven't we? Haven't we all?

Scott Hammond: I've seen a few online.

David Holper: Okay, here it is. Face it. When he smiles that smug smile of his as if to say, "I'm gloating in your pain," you feel your fingers curling into a fist. You imagine how this face just needs a knuckle sandwich to punch away the smugness. What you wouldn't give to be the one to deliver that fell blow just so you could smirk while he wiped away the blood, fumbled for something broken, asking, "Why the heck did you do that?" While you smile as if to say, "You have the rest of your life to play the fool. Why not today, to why not take today off?"

Scott Hammond: You, you get a day off.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Smack.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Love that.

David Holper: Okay. All right, I'll do one more.

Scott Hammond: Sure, go for it. Take your time.

David Holper: Um, yeah, let's see. Okay, this is a, a great word. We don't really have this in English. I think we have the concept, but we don't have anything, I, there's no word like it. It's l'esprit d'escalier. It's French, and it's a noun, and it literally means the wisdom of the staircase. It is that witty or cutting retort that we should have delivered to a person but comes to mind only after we've left the gathering and are on, on our way down the stairs. That's why it's the wisdom of the staircase.

Scott Hammond: On the way out.

David Holper: Yeah. L'esprit d'escalier.

Scott Hammond: That's a thing, man.

David Holper: It is.

Scott Hammond: You go, "I could've, ah."

David Holper: Oh, and I sh- I, no, it… Yeah.

Scott Hammond: That moment is gone-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … forever. If I could, oh, hey, wait. Everybody come back, I wanna say something. No. No, you cannot. It's over for you. So if we wanna get a hold of you, how do we do that best, uh, the website?

David Holper: Oh, yeah, go-

Scott Hammond: Is it Davidholper.com?

David Holper: Yeah, davidholper.com. Just go on there. My email's on there. You can email me. And it, it's easy. Email, it's eurekapoetlaureate-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … .com, or no, eurekapoetlaureate@gmail.com.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And you're that for how long?

David Holper: I was that from 2019 to 2021.

Scott Hammond: Oh, who is it now?

David Holper: Uh, Will Gibson, and he is one of the founders of the, uh, the Arcata Slam.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

David Holper: Yeah, which is no longer in exi- existence, but he runs a slam now out of the Siren Song, and I think it's called Black Hat Productions-

Scott Hammond: Mm

David Holper: … if I'm correct. So if I'm not, Will, my apologies, but I think that's what it's

David Holper: called.

Scott Hammond: And Siren Song's down in Old Town, right?

David Holper: Yeah, right. Just, uh, catty-corner from, uh, Book

David Holper: Legger.

Scott Hammond: Yes. Yes, it is.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

David Holper: Okay.

Scott Hammond: Used to be Old Town Bar & Grill.

David Holper: Oh, yeah, right.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: I went there.

Scott Hammond: Oh.

David Holper: I saw some blues musicians.

Scott Hammond: Oh my gosh. It, history of, um-

David Holper: Lots of bands

Scott Hammond: … bands that came through that were amazing.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And apparently, uh, the history of that from the '70s and the into the '80s was, um-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … stellar. We saw a guy named Bruce Coburn there who's a-

David Holper: Oh, I know Bruce Coburn.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. He's been through a lot of times here.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: One of my favorite guitar players.

David Holper: Yeah, good friends with Greg King.

Scott Hammond: Oh, is that right?

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I think he's getting older. I think he's, has assistance on stage now. But yeah, the Bar & Grill was huge.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: What a perfect place for poetry-

David Holper: Oh, it was a good place

Scott Hammond: … and performance.

David Holper: Yeah. Yeah, I, I, uh, launched a couple books out of

David Holper: there.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: Okay, so anyway, l'es- l'esprit d'escalier. Here's the poem. The next day in the shower, you discover the words that eluded you, the perfect comeback to the poison that awful person poured into the porch of your ear. If only he were here to feel the fire of your scalding wit. What you wouldn't give to see him roasting alive in his richly deserved humiliation.

Scott Hammond: Richly. You, you so richly deserve-

David Holper: Yes

Scott Hammond: … my ra- my wrath. Yeah, funny, funny how we could really word it up after, after the fact.

David Holper: After the fact, we have the-

Scott Hammond: Yeah, pretty dull stick otherwise, eh?

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, well, same to you.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: Right, right.

Scott Hammond: You jerk.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: What? What are you doing?

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So, uh, you've, you mentioned the magic of Humboldt, not your words, mine, but you-

David Holper: Right

Scott Hammond: … why do, what do you feel like we have here that is not in Sac? You said community.

David Holper: Well-

Scott Hammond: I, I heard that in play.

David Holper: Yeah. We definitely have community. Um, you know, and, and, and because we're kind of spread out all over the place, there are these little, little micro-communities that I belong to, like the faculty at CR-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … the, the poetry communities in both in Arcata and Eureka. I wound up, um, getting involved with, um, something called Poetry Out Loud, uh, which is a program the N- the National Endowment of the Arts started-

Scott Hammond: Oh

David Holper: … years ago. And it's a kind of tantamount for poetry to, like, what a spelling bee would be.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

David Holper: So, uh, high school students all over the United States, if their high school participates in Poetry Out Loud, um, they memorize a few poems. They have to be s- uh, from the Poetry Out Loud

David Holper: website.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: So they have to be published poems. And so they select two, and they w- uh, take part in a high school competition.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

David Holper: Whoever wins that goes to the county. Whoever wins the county goes to the state.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: And whoever wins state goes to nationals.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Holper: Yeah. So, uh, both my daughters participated in Poetry Out Loud, and my younger daughter, Catherine, uh, won at the county level and went on to the state and got into the top six-

Scott Hammond: Wow

David Holper: … for the state of California, and I don't know if, how many there were total, but it was most of the counties in California.

David Holper: And so-

Scott Hammond: Proud dad moment, yeah.

David Holper: Oh, yeah, it was awesome. I thought-

Scott Hammond: Pretty cool

David Holper: … "She's gonna go to nationals," but she didn't quite make it. The top two were amazing.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: Uh, they were just phenomenal.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: Yeah. So…

Scott Hammond: Toastmasters does the same for speaking.

David Holper: Right.

Scott Hammond: And you get to Sacrament- or s- the Bay Area, and you go, "These guys, wait, this all, this thing's all been, like, paced out, and it's got theater, and-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … there's, like, props," and I'm going, "Really?

Scott Hammond: I, my-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … my speech was good, but this thing's-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … off the hook."

David Holper: Yeah. That, that's how I felt about the two performers from s- they were from Sacramento and from Oakland. They were, they-

Scott Hammond: Next, next level stuff

David Holper: They were phenomenal.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: That's cool that she went all the way then.

David Holper: Yeah, though. She-

Scott Hammond: Part of the way

David Holper: … she's really, yeah, she's really gifted. Both of them are gifted with language.

Scott Hammond: Hey, the part of the show-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … where I'm gonna read some poetry.

David Holper: All right. Perfect.

Scott Hammond: K- Just kidding. Uh, so favorite parts of Humboldt for you.

Scott Hammond: So let's-

David Holper: Oh, okay

Scott Hammond: … you're a hiking guy, so top three hikes. You have all, you have three days off.

David Holper: Oh, okay. Um-

Scott Hammond: You can go do three hikes

David Holper: … you can't do it right now, but, um, you used to be able to go up, uh, the ridge where Lady Bird Johnson is, and go up beyond that-

Scott Hammond: Oh

David Holper: … to Dolason Prairie.

Scott Hammond: Right.

David Holper: So it's just beyond the fire station.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

David Holper: It's about 11 miles up the ridge. And then go down from Dolason Prairie all the way to Emerald Creek, over the ridge, and all the way down to the Tall Trees Gro-

David Holper: Grove.

Scott Hammond: Oh, nice.

David Holper: And then turn around and go back up.

Scott Hammond: That was the whole thing, yeah.

David Holper: Yeah. That was 13 and a half miles and about 3,300 feet of

David Holper: climbing.

Scott Hammond: That's pretty good.

David Holper: That, that was a really good workout to get back in shape,

David Holper: but-

Scott Hammond: Joni said there's a r- big redwood on the… It's a- almost a…

David Holper: Y-

Scott Hammond: It is impassable.

David Holper: Yeah. So once you go through all the prairies and you go into the forest, there was a big blow down a couple years ago.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

David Holper: And, you know, I, I understand why the park hasn't cleared it, 'cause it's probably a ton of work.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: And it's, it's a trail that isn't used that much, but boy, that was a beautiful

David Holper: trail.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: I loved hiking that. Headwaters, I love hiking Headwaters.

Scott Hammond: Headwaters.

David Holper: A tough one that I've enjoyed doing a lot, uh, more recently is Grasshopper Peak, which is down-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

David Holper: … in southern Humboldt.

Scott Hammond: Really hardcore.

David Holper: That, that's, uh, 3,400 feet. Pretty steep. Hike out at Albee Camp, um-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … Campground and go up there. Boy, that's a, that's a good hike.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, Joni's done that with the, uh… They have a, a once a year-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … run. Run?

Scott Hammond: Walk?

David Holper: Yeah. I, I was just hiking on it a few weeks ago, and Six Rivers was out there. I didn't know they were gonna be there that day.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: And they were doing the, um-

Scott Hammond: Is that a Saturday?

David Holper: … the 10K, yeah. And they were doing a 30K. And the 30K's… Uh, I didn't see the 10K people 'cause they were behind me, but when I was getting up toward the top of the peak-

Scott Hammond: Mm

David Holper: … I saw the 30K folks come by, and I cheered every single one of them on.

Scott Hammond: Nice.

David Holper: Because that is, that is a tough run.

Scott Hammond: That's gotta be tough, tough.

David Holper: That's 18 miles and going up 3,400 feet.

Scott Hammond: I can't even imagine.

David Holper: Oh, man.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: Those folks are all hardcore.

Scott Hammond: Round two.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Where do you go for coffee?

David Holper: Oh, um, Ramones over by the hospital.

Scott Hammond: Ah.

David Holper: That's close to my house.

Scott Hammond: Hey, here's one. If you could go anywhere you want in Humboldt-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … and read your poetry-

David Holper: Oh, where would I read?

Scott Hammond: … to an audience that magically showed up, where would you read?

David Holper: Mm, my favorite spot, you know, bar none, Morris Graves Museum Rotunda.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: That is… You don't even need a mic. The acoustics are so good-

Scott Hammond: Beautiful

David Holper: … in there. I've read a few times in that space, and it's so, so awesome.

Scott Hammond: So it's a Carnegie library.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And he funded, like, 2,000 libraries around the-

David Holper: Right

Scott Hammond: … the nation.

David Holper: And many of them have been turned into museums.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: Um, so we are just so blessed to have that Morris Graves Museum as a kind of centerpiece-

Scott Hammond: Beautiful

David Holper: … of art and culture, and they're the ones who do the Poetry Out Loud, uh, the countywide competition.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: Um, I'm on Humboldt Arts Council, so shout out to the Morris Graves folks-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … and to the staff.

Scott Hammond: So-

David Holper: Especially Jemima Harr-

Scott Hammond: Uh-huh

David Holper: … executive director, and her staff.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: Genevieve Kesbough, Alexandria, all of them, they do an awesome job.

Scott Hammond: Shout out. The, um, Sally Arnott was huge, too, right? She was a big, big-

David Holper: Oh, yeah, she was a big fundraiser for them-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

David Holper: … and a cheerleader all the way.

Scott Hammond: When I worked at the Tri-City newspaper, we, uh, we did the free ads for the bricks, the just, you know, donate

Scott Hammond: money-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … and get a brick.

David Holper: Yep.

Scott Hammond: Yep. Yeah, it is a really cool facility.

David Holper: It is. So-

Scott Hammond: Beautifully done

David Holper: … that'd probably be my number one spot, but any coffee house in the county I'd

David Holper: read at.

Scott Hammond: Okay. Ready?

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Free dinner on Joni and I, where do you go?

David Holper: Where do I go? Hmm, that's a tough one.

David Holper: Laropin.

Scott Hammond: Laropin?

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Larop- We hit Laropin a lot.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Do you like Laropin, Nick? Nick says yes.

David Holper: Where would you go?

Scott Hammond: Um, you know, 'cause I haven't been to Laropin probably for a while, I probably would go there.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Um, that's a good one. Yeah, probably

Scott Hammond: Laropin.

David Holper: Yeah. South G Kitchen, though. We've recently eaten there during Taco Week. We went and had their tacos.

Scott Hammond: Is that at the beer joint, that Redwood Brewing?

David Holper: Yeah, right.

Scott Hammond: Is it a truck?

David Holper: It's a truck out back.

Scott Hammond: Oh.

David Holper: Oh, best tacos I've had in Humboldt County. South G Kitchen, you guys rock.

Scott Hammond: Really?

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: That's a big thing, 'cause I'm from San Diego, and it, the, the taco standard is, it's pretty high, bro.

David Holper: Oh, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Yaman.

David Holper: Yeah, ya.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: But their tacos were-

Scott Hammond: That's, that's German Jamaican, yaman.

David Holper: Yaman. Is that translatable into English?

Scott Hammond: It is. No, there's some really good tacos there. Uh, and I think there's plenty of good Mexican food here.

Scott Hammond: But-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … for some reason it's always that kinda, it just-

David Holper: It's not-

Scott Hammond: Wait, you put ground-

David Holper: I, I grew up in the Bay Area

Scott Hammond: … you put ground beef in there. You can't do that.

David Holper: No.

Scott Hammond: Don't do that, man.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: Um, no, we have good restaurants here, but you know, I'm, I grew up in the Bay Area and I ate a lot of really good food in the Bay Area.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: And so I'm always encouraging the restaurants-

Scott Hammond: Mm

David Holper: … keep on upping your game.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

David Holper: But there, there's good food here.

Scott Hammond: All right. Ready?

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: You're gonna go write a poem.

David Holper: Yes.

Scott Hammond: And you're gonna go to one spot and sit for four hours.

David Holper: Mm.

Scott Hammond: And write maybe mini poems. Where would you, if you had to sit and

Scott Hammond: stare at one vista point or one spot in th- uh, on that map?

David Holper: Well, because it's summer-

Scott Hammond: Where would you go?

David Holper: … it's summer now, and, uh, the waves aren't monstrous, I would take a folding chair and I'd go out on the North Jetty.

Scott Hammond: Oh.

David Holper: In a safe spot.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: I'm not going out, um, like-

Scott Hammond: You're not gonna go out

David Holper: … I'm not, not like the guy who drove his truck out there on a stormy day.

David Holper: No.

Scott Hammond: And washed away.

David Holper: And I'm gonna sit out there and write some poems.

Scott Hammond: That'd be a great spot-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … 'cause you have it all.

David Holper: Yeah, I wr- I, actually when I was poet laureate, I went out there and wrote a poem called North Jetty.

Scott Hammond: Oh, wow.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Holper: Yeah. It's a good spot to sit and think, you know, because you got the Pacific

David Holper: rolling in.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: You've got sea birds. Um-It's quiet and, uh, yeah, that's a good spot

Scott Hammond: I, I have another spot for me to go write poetry would be the Malal

Scott Hammond: Dunes.

David Holper: Oh, yeah.

Scott Hammond: When you walk up on, back on the dunes, there's, there's a really high one that just looks east at everything.

David Holper: Yeah, my pastor and I went and shot a video up there on the top of

David Holper: one of-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … on, I think on the high one, and yeah, I hadn't been up there in a while, and boy, you get a view from there.

Scott Hammond: It's really neat. Yeah.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: You can see way north and way south.

David Holper: I know. It's an amazing spot.

Scott Hammond: Strawberry Rock would be nice up-

David Holper: Strawberry Rock would be good, too.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: You gotta be, you gotta be young to do that whole… There's a, like a rope-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … climb at the end

David Holper: … I've done it, I've done it with my, my family.

Scott Hammond: That's pretty rad.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Can't take the lawn chair up there.

David Holper: No. Well, you could, but you'd have to sling it over your back.

Scott Hammond: You'd have to s- Or throw it up to somebody.

David Holper: Yeah, yeah.

Scott Hammond: That's great. So tell us more about, um, um, what you wanna see on your tombstone.

David Holper: Okay.

Scott Hammond: Um, what's your end of life poem, if you have one? Or I don't, I'm-

David Holper: Hmm

Scott Hammond: … who has one? You might. I don't know.

David Holper: I don't, I don't know if I have one, but, um-

Scott Hammond: What do you want to be remembered for? What are we seeing at your-

David Holper: I think I'm gonna have a two-sided tombstone. So on one side it'll-

Scott Hammond: Oh, cool

David Holper: … it'll say David Holper, the years that I lived.

Scott Hammond: Uh-huh.

David Holper: You know, and it'll say poet and writer. And on the other side there'll be a recipe.

Scott Hammond: Nice.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I like it.

David Holper: Yeah. Like, there was… I've seen a tombstone for this, I, I guess it, it was a grandmother-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … who everybody was always bugging her for this recipe.

Scott Hammond: She finally-

David Holper: And she's like, "When I die, you can have it."

Scott Hammond: So she literally-

David Holper: Put it on the back of her tombstone.

Scott Hammond: The chocolate chip oatmeal-

David Holper: Right

Scott Hammond: … surprise-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … cookie.

David Holper: That's it. Like, nobody knew how to make it, but now they do.

Scott Hammond: That's hilarious.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I like that. I was thinking of like, like a record album, like on one side it would have this, and on the other side it would have, I don't know.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Lyrics.

David Holper: Right.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, I like that.

David Holper: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Well, appreciate you coming. Tell me, uh, one more time, shout out to you in terms of how we can support you, uh-

David Holper: Oh, sure

Scott Hammond: … support poetry in Humboldt County-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … poets, uh, et cetera-

David Holper: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … et cetera.

David Holper: Well, let me just start by saying, you know, there are a number of really great bookstores here. Northtown Books-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Holper: … I think has copies of my latest book of poems. Uh, Eureka Books, Book Legger.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: Both of those are in Eureka. The Morris Graves Museum, uh, downstairs has that, uh, the, uh, little gift st- shop. They have some books, s- copies of my book. Uh, I, oh, I know, uh, Eureka Natural Foods has copies-

Scott Hammond: All right

David Holper: … in Eureka.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Holper: Um, so any of those places, and if… You can always order it through Amazon if you can't find your way to any of those

David Holper: shops.

Scott Hammond: And davidholper.com.

David Holper: Davidholper.com.

Scott Hammond: Hey, we have time for like a one-minute quick one, one more if you wanna just

Scott Hammond: pick one.

David Holper: Yeah. Let me pick you a-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

David Holper: … a quick poem.

Scott Hammond: That'd be great.

David Holper: I'm gonna pick you poem 109.

Scott Hammond: Let's do, let's go with that one.

David Holper: Which is, uh, the word selah. So it's a Hebrew word used 74 times in the Hebrew Bible, 71 times in the Psalms, three times in Habakkuk, and no one e- knows what it means.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Holper: Not anymore. So I think, uh, probably the best guess is it means stop, pause, and think of this.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Holper: Selah. At the end of one journey, we often miss how our footsteps fall in the place where another journey always awaits. In order to learn such a lesson, one must walk the great dusty distances into silence, where if you're listening carefully, you will recognize the footfalls of those who have passed before you, and all those who will by necessity follow. Perhaps in understanding your place in this hijera, this spiritual journey, you can see the beauty in offering some grace to another along the way. In such practice, what journey is ever taken alone?

Scott Hammond: Thank you, David. That was amazing.

David Holper: Thank you.

Scott Hammond: Appreciate you coming on the show.

David Holper: Thanks, Scott.

Scott Hammond: And, uh-

David Holper: It's a pleasure being here

Scott Hammond: … we'll look for some poetry events and look for you.

David Holper: Sounds good.

Scott Hammond: All right. Thanks again.

David Holper: All right.