#94. Listen First, Speak Second: David Frank’s Mission to Heal Political Divides

Scott Hammond: Ladies and gentlemen, friends and neighbors, and those out to sea, it's Scott Hammond, and I'm with the 100% Humboldt podcast with my new best friend- … the man, the myth, the legend. I practiced this all morning.

David Frank: Right on.

Scott Hammond: David Frank. Hi, David.

David Frank: Hello, Scott. Thanks for having me in here. This is a fantastic chance for us to, uh, get to know each other a little

David Frank: bit better.

Scott Hammond: I, I've been looking forward to that. You know, um, I practiced that all morning. I've never done quite an intro like that, so consider yourself

Scott Hammond: introduced.

David Frank: I'm feeling it.

Scott Hammond: Are you?

David Frank: This is fantastic.

Scott Hammond: Tell us… S- so tell us the, uh, tell us the David story.

David Frank: That's a softball and a half. Um, okay. Well, I- as you said, you rehearsed it. I wasn't sure exactly how I was gonna dive right into this, and I just said I think it makes sense to say I'm originally, uh… although I was born, um, in New York City, I, I lived most of my first few years in the Boston

David Frank: area.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Frank: Uh, first grade, moved to, uh, New Jersey, Princeton area. Stayed there through college. Uh, went to Rutgers University, which is just about 12 miles-

Scott Hammond: Sweet

David Frank: … from where I'm from.

Scott Hammond: Good school.

David Frank: It was great school, and-

Scott Hammond: Is it I- is it Ivy League?

David Frank: No, it's a state school.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

David Frank: So interestingly, uh, Princeton's right there, too. They're about 12 miles apart, so-

Scott Hammond: Yeah, they're Ivy

David Frank: … there's this triangle. Correct, yeah. And so, like, my whole, uh, youth riding bikes, uh, u- up to 100 miles was in that whole area there.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Frank: Um, so yeah, so that's where I started off. I studied, um, you know, political science and philosophy at Rutgers. Um, one of the things I think is worth mentioning is in my life, I always, as a kid, uh, would take, you know, any job

David Frank: that I-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … could get to kinda do, basically hustle, make a little bit of money, ingratiate myself to, uh, friends and neighbors.

Scott Hammond: Good.

David Frank: So, like, cleaning houses, babysitting, uh, cutting firewood, working at a pet store, lifeguarding, helping people

David Frank: move-

Scott Hammond: Sweet

David Frank: … uh, handing out political flyers. Uh, I'm probably missing, uh, you know, a dozen different things I did as a kid for, for money. Shovel snow, landscaping, you know, all sorts of

David Frank: things.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Frank: Um, so, you know, my parents, uh, put a, you know, that work ethic

David Frank: in-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … um, with us, and was raised Catholic, um, so there was a degree of, you know, morality at the kitchen table.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

David Frank: Um, one of the things that I think is interesting, too, is I heard that, uh, Maria Shriver, that she, as, when she was growing up, her father, Sargent Shriver, used to put an article on the stairs when they got home from school-

Scott Hammond: Ah

David Frank: … and changed out of their school clothes, and they w- needed to be prepared to speak about that article.

Scott Hammond: To talk about it. Wow.

David Frank: Something similar happened in my house, although I didn't know it, uh, that there was this parallel, uh, where my f- parents always expected us to be able to converse intelligently and defend our opinions and then kinda pivot-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … to understand people that disagreed with us. So I mention this 'cause it has set me up for life, really-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

David Frank: … to have that, uh, be- besides being a middle child anyway, um, just kind of always trying to learn people's perspectives, give them that steel man version of their argument instead of, like, a straw man, where you break people down to, like, own them or-

Scott Hammond: Right

David Frank: … you know, you know, prove them wrong or dumb or something.

Scott Hammond: Right, right, right.

David Frank: Um, I was always trying to build people up and get to the, you know, a, a better understanding where people-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … were coming from. So, um, fast-forward, had done tremendously diverse set of jobs, too.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: Wasn't sure what I was gonna do. Um, so for example, I worked at a survey research firm in Princeton for a while. Um, I, I worked, um, at, well, lu- th- th- that was called Mathematica Policy Research. I worked at, uh, Lucent Technologies-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

David Frank: … um, as a financial analyst there. Um, so between survey research, financial analysis, those were a couple interesting careers, uh, paths. Um, never really exactly knew what the future would hold.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Frank: Um, I always thought I was gonna go to law school. I, like, so I applied, uh, a few times.

Scott Hammond: Oh.

David Frank: I took… Sorry, I took the test, the admission test a few times. Scored very well-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … but just didn't end up happening-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

David Frank: … um, for whatever reason. Um, yeah, and then so when I was between jobs at one point… Oh, and I worked for a law firm, uh, for a while, a big law firm in New Jersey, like a top, I think, five firm, um, as legal assistant for a while. Got to see Superfund litigation, which is, like, toxic torts. Uh, so I got to fi- I got to learn that's not something I wanna do, um, where you devote your whole, you know, all your being for months on end, and then people settle out of court, and then no one can talk about it again.

Scott Hammond: They go away, yeah.

David Frank: Yeah, yeah. So that was like, "I'm not doing that." Um, anyway, so when I was between jobs, a friend of mine, um, he became blind in an

David Frank: accident.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Frank: And, um, he- his family paid for him to move out here.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: And they offered me, "Hey, you can… You're between jobs. Why don't you just go spend some time out in California for a while?" Um, basically-

Scott Hammond: Humboldt?

David Frank: … cooking… In here, in Humboldt, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Oh, wow.

David Frank: Cooking, cleaning, kinda, like, being a friend, and that worked out pretty well

David Frank: for a while.

Scott Hammond: How'd you, how'd you get to Humboldt? Just like that.

David Frank: Yeah. That's it.

Scott Hammond: Wow, so a caregiver.

David Frank: Yeah. Uh, I, I, uh, loaded some things into a Honda Civic, um, gave away, sold the rest, put, put, uh, some books in storage, and then, uh, made a go of it, and, uh, loved it

David Frank: here.

Scott Hammond: Oh.

David Frank: Loved it here. And, uh, within about a month of me, uh, getting here, I also connected… Actually, my first meal with other people, besides my friends from New

David Frank: Jersey, uh, was Thanksgiving of '04, after the election. And, um, they said, "So what do you do?" And I was like, "Oh, I have done anything and everything, and I'll, I'll- sure I'll hit the ground running. But beyond that, I also have bartended and catered in people's homes since I was 18 years old." And, um, and so they said, "Oh, we could hook you up with a bartending gig here."

Scott Hammond: Ah.

David Frank: So I actually m- met up with the folks, um, that own Plaza Grill.

Scott Hammond: Nice.

David Frank: And Abruzzi, the bigger company-

Scott Hammond: Bill Chino.

David Frank: Bill Chino, exactly, and Chris Smith, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Don't forget Chris.

David Frank: Yeah. And they were awesome to me. They took me under their wing right away.

David Frank: Um-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … and I worked for them for over 10 years.

Scott Hammond: I see Chris at church on occasion and always hug him, and he- He loves me

David Frank: Yeah. Good people.

Scott Hammond: Oh.

David Frank: Really good people

Scott Hammond: Nobody's funnier. When they, when they were funny and on their game-

David Frank: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … up at the office at Tux Inc.-

David Frank: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … I've never, never seen guys that just organically just

Scott Hammond: have a hoot.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Totally hilarious.

David Frank: Yeah. It's a big, it was a good family to be-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

David Frank: … uh, welcomed into.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Funny, I was just, you know, as you reflect on what people say, you, you're kinda thinking your own version. I go, "Didn't have a job till I was, like, in high school, totally not Catholic." Totally, you might say ne'er-do-well, and kind of, kind of opposites.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Uh, politically affiliated, we'll get there.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Very apolitical and very uninterested in, in, uh, um, in being, um, informed. You know, that whole eth- that whole thing, I, I need to be informed and up-to-date. We'll get to that.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Uh, tell me more. So that's what brought you to Humboldt.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Cool.

David Frank: Um, so y- since you mentioned it, I'll just add this into the mix. Um, you know, studying political science and philosophy, social political theory. I also was interested in applied, um, you know, f- uh, political kind of analysis, polling, uh, because survey research from when I worked at Mathematica-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

David Frank: … um, got me into… I, I guess a really interesting quote that I came across was one of our, um, uh, census economist, econometric specialists.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: Think it was ca- like, I forget his exact title, but, uh, he said, "Hey, it's the same math that when you hit a baseball, it goes out of the stadium."

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: "When you try to get a satellite up into orbit, uh, the stars-

Scott Hammond: Same

David Frank: … that pop out of a supernova, uh, that same math is in

David Frank: polling."

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Frank: And so if, uh, if you, if you follow AAPOR, the Association of Public Opinion Research, you follow their methodologies-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … um, there are scientifically valid, um, outcomes that you can either predict or describe. So, um, you know, as you age and you get mature and you see, you start to, uh, well, be a little bit, have a little bit more scrutiny about-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … what media presents-

Scott Hammond: Right

David Frank: … you realize that you're, you're on your own-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … to do your own research and-

Scott Hammond: Yes, you are

David Frank: … uh, you know-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

David Frank: … assess things and, and kind of double and triple check your

David Frank: assumptions-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … because, uh, it's not easy to navigate, um, consensus building, uh, that happens in, in our political system.

Scott Hammond: I got three things I wanna say, but first, I'm gonna say this. If you're just joining us, my new best friend-

Scott Hammond: … David Frank, becoming my new best friend, and, uh, talking about his origin story, and, uh, we're gonna talk about, uh, your media,

Scott Hammond: uh,

Scott Hammond: journey, and then, uh, we're gonna retrograde just real quick to Prop fif- is it 50, that Gavin Newsom was on TV on last night?

David Frank: That's right.

Scott Hammond: That, uh, redistricting, we're not gonna redistrict? We're gonna oppose Trump's redistrict thing.

Scott Hammond: I, I, see.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: There you go. But y- so are, are, would you be behind something like that?

David Frank: Are we diving into that? You wanna do that for right now?

Scott Hammond: Not very-

David Frank: I can do it

Scott Hammond: … not very far, actually.

David Frank: Yeah, yeah. I can do it.

Scott Hammond: I wanna go, I wanna go to the media first. But I, I did see that last night, so I'm-

David Frank: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … I know one prop.

David Frank: Yeah. I, so I follow this stuff way too closely, and I, and I kind of, uh, assess how deeply people wanna go on any given political issue-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … anywhere in the world. 'Cause I, people have a lot of opinions. Uh, one of my friends used to say, "Opinions are like noses. Everybody has one." And you know, so the question-

Scott Hammond: My-

David Frank: … is assessing, assessing where people are at, where you meet them where they are.

David Frank: And so, um-

Scott Hammond: My dad had a different version of that saying.

David Frank: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I bet he did.

Scott Hammond: Heyo.

David Frank: Uh, so we can talk about Prop 50 later, I guess, as Joe had said.

Scott Hammond: Let's do it. Yeah, why not?

David Frank: But, but it's an interesting one because it, it challenges, um, assumptions about what ought to be and what is.

Scott Hammond: Okay. Y- the other thing I really like about you already is that you remind me of my wife Joni, who's a listener, and is, is more moderate and accepting and listening to other opinions and processing and trying to get a, whatever truth looks like. You know, and, and like you said, I think getting media that tells the truth is pretty challenging.

Scott Hammond: Um-

David Frank: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … I think I'm told BBC's pretty good, right?

David Frank: I love BBC. I, um, I watch, uh, Deutsche Welle, the German news-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … BBC, uh, uh, I think it's called AF24. It's the French news.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Frank: Um, I used to watch, uh, a little bit of Japanese news, but it, it's

David Frank: not as, uh, relevant to my life, so I, I-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … and, and how much time do we really have?

Scott Hammond: But BBC is kinda the king of, uh, international news, right?

David Frank: Yeah. BBC gets a ton of credit, um, for that, uh, for its role, but I have to say, like, just, you know, in the last couple of years, I watch the German news more than I watch the British news, um, all things being equal.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So, uh, let's, let's jump into media. So the, then you, uh, were part of Public Access, and you have your own KMUD, and then you have the Humboldt Wonk Show. Uh, tell us about the, the arc of that-

David Frank: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … how that's all come about.

David Frank: So this is an interesting- … uh, origin story. I never had any intention of, um, necessarily getting into media, but bartending, um, and catering in people's homes, you get the opportunity to hear a lot and listen a lot, especially in New Jersey, uh, where I, where I first started that, those, uh, jobs. Um, just a tremendous exposure to, to, uh, really interesting ideas and thoughts and opinions-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

David Frank: … and access ultimately 'cause who, who hires private bartenders in their house, right? It's not like- … you know, typically it's a, a select group, right? Um, so, so yeah. So I had, uh, tremendous experience there, um, listening and, and navigating conversations where kind of, you know, as a chameleon, so to speak,

David Frank: fitting in-

Scott Hammond: Sure

David Frank: … with just about anybody. Um, so I al- that was always in the back of my mind. Here in, um, in Humboldt, I started working for… Well, I guess this is worth mentioning.

David Frank: Um, I didn't have, like, a professional career while I was here in the beginning. I was bartending and catering, but I was encouraged by my, my father kind of, you know, as he was basically on his deathbed, like, "Hey, you gotta, you, you, you can't just, like, go camping and hang out and-"

Scott Hammond: You gotta level up here, buddy

David Frank: … you gotta, you gotta, you gotta go back to, like, yeah, adding, adding to the world 'cause you've got gifts, and add, add to the world. It's a responsibility.

Scott Hammond: Good-

David Frank: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … good father word.

David Frank: It was- It was cool. Yeah. So, so I looked all over, you know, um, DC, New York, Seattle, Portland, LA. I wasn't sure what I was gonna do, and then something came up here,

David Frank: thankfully-

Scott Hammond: Good

David Frank: … uh, at Internews, which I hadn't heard of that organization before. It's a me- international media non-profit, and it was a really good fit. Um, I started working there, and over the course of… I, I ended up working there for just over 10 years until very recently.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: Um, but, uh, over the course of that period, I was exposed to friends of mine that worked down at KMUD.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: Um, and they had said, like, "Hey, you gotta, you gotta try to… Y- y- you'd be great to host a show. You should have a show."

Scott Hammond: Is that how you met Eric?

David Frank: Uh, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Er- yeah.

David Frank: Yeah, I met Eric through them. Yes, exactly.

Scott Hammond: 'Cause he was on the air as well down there, r- right?

David Frank: Yeah, yeah. Um, All Things Reconsidered on, like, I forget which day of the month.

David Frank: That's, uh, it doesn't matter. Like-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

David Frank: … I, I don't know his schedule. But yeah, so I, I, I met him there. But basically, I did a pilot show where I, um, took Noam Chomsky's, like, Manufacturing Consent-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … and, and said, "If I had a show, it would be about how, you know, media has its own y- uh, you know, uh, profit-driven motivations."

Scott Hammond: Sure.

David Frank: "And there's agenda-setting, and there's, uh, this Overton window of things that are polite to talk about-"

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … "in so- society versus, um, if you really wanna, you know, uh, affect policy in a way that is transformative, maybe local media would be the most appropriate place."

Scott Hammond: Oh.

David Frank: Community media would be the most appropriate place because you can do face-to-face things like this.

Scott Hammond: Right.

David Frank: And you don't have a, a reason to fight. Um, you have a reason to, to reconcile.

Scott Hammond: Motivations are a little bit more clear.

David Frank: Yeah, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Frank: So, so then- … so they, they gave me, like, a pilot show, and they're like, "This is great. You have a show." So I've been doing that for n- 10 years almost.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Frank: Um, and then so that kind of, um, led to one of my colleagues at Internews, um, as, uh, she's a delegate to the Democratic Party, and she mentioned that, "Hey, there's this intriguing relationship inside the Democratic Party."

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: Uh, about two out of three voters in California are Democrats, so they have a oversized influence on just about everything in the

David Frank: state.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: And within that team, this schism exists between establishment people that are, you know, more, more, uh, traditional-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … corporate interests, so to speak, um, versus, like, this sorta newer rising force for change-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … the Bernie Sanders wing, this progressive wing, and, like, covering that. Like, if you just pay attention to this schism, um, you'll learn a lot about what's happening here.

Scott Hammond: There's news there.

David Frank: Exactly.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: So, so yeah, so the-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … so almost simultaneously, I got involved in community media and also being a fly on the wall in the Democratic Party, um-

Scott Hammond: Wow. So your worlds, your worlds and your interests crashed-

David Frank: Yeah, yeah

Scott Hammond: … in a good, in a good way.

David Frank: Yeah, and these are hobbies, right? Like, I'm not out to, you know, m- to… At the time, I thought this was just a, a pastime, but, but, you know, something I'm really interested in.

Scott Hammond: Perfect st- storm. Worlds collide.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: In a good way, so it was your-

David Frank: Totally.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. So did you go to SAC a lot?

David Frank: No, no.

Scott Hammond: No?

David Frank: This was all, um, I started…

David Frank: So I ended up getting asked to become a delegate.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: Um, and I said, "I'm a non-party affiliated person."

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: "I, I, you know, I have a deep criticisms of, of the entirety of both parties, and, uh, probably you don't want me to be a member of your party." Uh, but she's, uh, my friend said, "No, you're, you're, you're a good fit." Um-

Scott Hammond: "You're the, you're the right answer."

David Frank: "You, you should do it. You should do it," yeah.

David Frank: So-

Scott Hammond: So what does a delegate do? Wait for… Let's back it up to t-

David Frank: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … see. What's the role of a delegate from Humboldt County

Scott Hammond: in-

David Frank: Um, basically, so there's about 3,000 delegates to the party at the

David Frank: state level-

Scott Hammond: Wow

David Frank: … approximately. Um, about a third are, you know, elected officials. About a third are, um, appointed by those elected officials, and about a third get elected by the community.

Scott Hammond: That's you.

David Frank: That's me, yeah. Uh, except that was my, me for two

David Frank: terms.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: Uh, so two two-year terms I got elected as a member of the community, but this past year, um, the slate I was on was marginalized. Um, and we could get into that, but, uh, we lost in fair and square, and, um, but I was appointed by, um, our assembly member, Chris Rogers.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: I had developed a relationship with him-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: …

David Frank: um-

Scott Hammond: He's-

David Frank: … just based on my involvement with-

Scott Hammond: Fairly newly elected, right?

David Frank: Yeah, he just got elected, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Frank: That.

Scott Hammond: He's, he's from where? S,

Scott Hammond: uh-

David Frank: Um, he is-

Scott Hammond: Mendo or So-

David Frank: No

Scott Hammond: … Nome?

David Frank: Um, yeah. He's from, uh, I think he's actually, maybe he's from… Oh my God. Um, so my friend is actually from Ukiah, who I met him through.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: Um, Chris is, I think, Healdsbur- oh, no, he was mayor of Santa Rosa.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

David Frank: He was city council of Santa Rosa.

Scott Hammond: Hey, Chris, shout out to Chris.

David Frank: That's it. Shout out to Chris.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: He'll see this.

David Frank: Yeah. He-

Scott Hammond: So-

David Frank: And, and I've spoken to him recently. I… Before he even appointed me, um, he's like, "Oh, you're super into the policy thing, and, like, you wanna make things better." Like-

Scott Hammond: Nice

David Frank: … "I, I got you. Like, we're, we're, we're, you know, we're, we're on the same page." So yeah, the, my, I requested. I said, "Hey, I lost the election, but I still wanna be involved."

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Frank: And so he appointed me.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Frank: But so what do they do? Um, so delegates go to conventions, and they are involved in the bylaws and-

Scott Hammond: Policy

David Frank: … policy, the platform, um, endorsements, which, which candidates the party's going to support with their funds and their efforts. Um, my take on it was just to be in the room and see how the sausage gets made.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Frank: Um, what's being talked about and when, and how it's gonna affect our community, and, like, through the radio show on KMUD-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … uh, be able to share what I learn and see with the community-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … and, like, maybe bring in experts, uh-

Scott Hammond: Wow

David Frank: … to talk about the things that are going on.

Scott Hammond: So do you have… Is, is there any sort of, um, uh, conflict of interest? C- you can talk about the stuff that they talk, uh, within reason in the media 'cause you're a media person?

David Frank: Yeah, so, um, y- so you, um, uh, I got hung up on the word conflict of interest. What I would say is you always have to w- walk a tightrope-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

David Frank: … th- 'cause there's confidentiality in-

Scott Hammond: Sure

David Frank: … in all sort… Like, you know, when I worked at Internews, I was in human resources. It's almost all confidential.

Scott Hammond: Totally.

David Frank: Um, so the, the, the idea is that you just kind of have to navigate the water as best you can. And, um- Yeah, you're in the room sometimes when people are saying things like, "This is what we're planning on doing. It doesn't leave this room."

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: Um, but for the most part, um, I'm able to stay ahead of that just through, um, being a good faith actor.

Scott Hammond: Good, and that you are. I, um… So tell me more. So th- then you have the show on Access TV.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: What- how old is Humboldt Grunk?

David Frank: Uh, so it's called Redwood Wonk.

Scott Hammond: I'm sorry.

David Frank: And that's okay. And wonk is just-

Scott Hammond: Wait

David Frank: … a word that means nerd.

Scott Hammond: It is r- it is…

David Frank: Yeah, it's like-

Scott Hammond: But see, now this is where-

David Frank: It's like a policy nerd

Scott Hammond: … so here comes AI.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Humboldt Wonk Show. Redwood Wonk Show.

David Frank: It was called Redwood Wonk, yeah.

Scott Hammond: So okay, so AI, you're fired. So what else does it say? Born in Mexico. No, I, I'm kidding. Um, so-

David Frank: I thought you were serious when you said that at first. I'm like, "No, I was not born in-"

Scott Hammond: No, no, Jersey is not Mex- Tell me more about, uh, the show. I've, I've seen you guys a lot.

David Frank: Yeah. Okay, so we didn't talk much about Access Humboldt.

Scott Hammond: Sorry.

David Frank: The way I got involved with Access Humboldt was, um, Internews, as an international media nonprofit-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … um, one of the tools that they use in communities is called the Information Ecosystem Assessment, and basically you interview people, and you figure out, "Hey, where do you get your information from?"

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: "What… If there was something you don't have access to, what would that be, and how would we possibly get it to you?"

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: And it's, uh, it's more complicated than that, but the idea is that you're just taking the pulse of a community. So because Internews was founded, um, in Arcata in California about 40 or so years ago, um, there was an arrangement that was made between Access Humboldt mo- more recently to use that tool-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … um, right before COVID. Um, like, "Hey, what's, what the information that people are getting in here, um, in Eureka, and, and, um, you know, what are some of the gaps?" And that's that kind of thing.

Scott Hammond: So Eureka or the county totally, in total?

David Frank: It was Eureka only.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

David Frank: Yeah, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Valuable tool, I bet.

David Frank: It was pretty cool. Yeah, they were using that as part of their strategic planning for the future, basically. That was what it was. Um, and because one of the, one of my former colleagues at Internews, um, brought this tool to the table for, for Access, uh, Humboldt. Um, and so that got me, like, in the loop with the Access Humboldt community, and then, um, first I was invited to host a show called North Coast Journal Preview.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Frank: Uh, shout out to Thad and Jennifer, like-

Scott Hammond: Yep

David Frank: … you know.

Scott Hammond: Is Thad leaving? Is that what I heard?

David Frank: He did, yeah.

Scott Hammond: He's gone.

David Frank: Yeah, he's working for, like, a, a, a First Amendment, um, firm whose name's escaping me. But he's really, he's really… I think he's working with some Pulitzer Prize winners.

Scott Hammond: Hey, do you think I could get Jennifer on the show?

David Frank: I don't know. You could ask.

Scott Hammond: She said no once.

David Frank: Oh.

Scott Hammond: You know what no means to a salesperson? No means maybe later.

David Frank: It means not yet. Yeah, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Frank: Uh, so I, I mean, I love the two of them. They're, they're just… Uh, I worked with them. We did over 200 shows together.

David Frank: Um-

Scott Hammond: But you… So you were part of the, the, the dialogue, or were you just-

David Frank: I was the host.

Scott Hammond: You were the ho- so you were intro and then…

Scott Hammond: Okay.

David Frank: Yeah, we would cover what… Basically, I said, like, "What are we talking about? What's covered, being covered in this week's North Coast Journal?"

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: Um, so it kept me really up on local news, which was great because I needed that. Um, I pay attention to international news. I pay attention to national news, even somewhat state news at the time, but very little local.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: And then they got me really dialed in, so that, that was very helpful, that experience, and the relationships, I think, are lifelong because they're both amazing people. Um, and so then they also asked me once to… The, the organization said, "Hey, why don't you, um, help co-host, uh, Eric Kirk's show-"

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … uh, Redwood Wonk, which is national news.

Scott Hammond: Ah.

David Frank: And so-

Scott Hammond: And that was ongoing already. That was up and running-

David Frank: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … I think.

David Frank: Yeah. Um, I, I don't know his name. There was a, there was a host, Rogers, uh, from Bicoastal Media. I forgot his first name.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Frank: Um, but, uh, yeah, so that person couldn't do it anymore, and I, and I took over temporarily, and that was probably, like, I don't know, 200 shows

David Frank: ago.

Scott Hammond: That's great.

David Frank: I stepped away, I stepped away recently, um, and have only put my toe back in the water to go back, but I'm part of that production team too, and that's a weekly show.

Scott Hammond: You guys have great re- repartee.

David Frank: Me and Eric, you mean?

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Frank: And we brought in, um, because-

Scott Hammond: No, you, you and Jen.

David Frank: Uh, we-

Scott Hammond: And Eric

David Frank: … we brought in, um, uh, Matthew Dowd from Matthew in the Middle from Time Standard. I don't know if you know that name.

Scott Hammond: Matthew Owen.

David Frank: Owen, sorry.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Frank: That, yeah.

Scott Hammond: That's right. Owen's on the show now.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: That's right.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Hey, Matt Owen. What's up?

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: He's been on the show.

David Frank: Yeah. He's a good dude, and they've been… Uh, him and Eric have been holding things down and doing a fantastic job, and, uh, they've been really, uh, accommodating in my, uh, delay in trying to get back into it.

Scott Hammond: And Matt's got a, a, like, a singular sense of humor.

David Frank: I love it.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Frank: It's hysterical.

Scott Hammond: Uh-huh.

David Frank: And so we did one show together, just the two of us-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … uh, when I got back after I broke my ankle, and, um, he is hysterical. It's to the point where, like, it's very different than Eric, 'cause Eric's a lawyer and progressive and has a strong opinion about just about everything, and very knowledgeable. Um, but, like, it's pretty serious to a certain extent.

Scott Hammond: I don't see Eric laughing a lot on the show.

David Frank: No, he doesn't really laugh.

Scott Hammond: No.

David Frank: But Matt, on the other hand, everything, like… Because y- laughter's the best medicine, right?

David Frank: If-

Scott Hammond: I think so

David Frank: … if, if the world is, uh, a cluster or FUBAR in some way-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … um, you got a, a satire is the antidote.

Scott Hammond: That's right. A chortle, a guffaw.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Uh, a tee hee hee.

David Frank: Yeah. Which is cool because some of this stuff is dry or boring-

Scott Hammond: Oh my God

David Frank: … or how does it, how does it affect my life? Um, so I, I've always, like, tried to s- help boil things down for folks in a way that's-

Scott Hammond: I like it

David Frank: … somewhat enjoyable.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: But, but, you know, Matt takes it to the next level. He's actually highly entertaining.

Scott Hammond: So you made segue to my first ever really good question. Are you ready?

David Frank: Let's hear it.

Scott Hammond: So if you're like me and you're, you're going, "National news is way above my pay grade. State news is I'm out of my lane, but I, but I know that I affect things locally. I, 'cause I live here. I, I hang out with people here."

David Frank: Right.

Scott Hammond: "I love, I love people here. It's my community."

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: How do I appropriately Process, uh, th- the bigger picture and, and bring it in home, and bring it down home. And, and that's my two-dollar question. How can I, how can I bring that concern, that love, that care, that energy that I would like to fix DC, or I'd like to fix Gaza, and I can't, how do I bring that here on, on the daily?

David Frank: Yeah, good-

Scott Hammond: Or how, how do you do that?

David Frank: Good question. So there's, this is a two-parter for me. One is, like, how I would say, um, you know, directed towards other people and their activities and what interests them, and then there's me 'cause I have my own sort of path and-

Scott Hammond: Mm

David Frank: … my own, um, interest and to a lack of a better, lack of a better way to say it, you know, um, passions, right?

Scott Hammond: Sure.

David Frank: So, like, I actually love this stuff, so I, for me, uh, it's very different than how I would, you know, make recommendations to other folks. But, um, firstly, just kinda big picture, this is… You know, we're not talking about the future yet, but this is where I intend to spend a lot of energy-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … um, going forward for the next year or two, which is-

Scott Hammond: In, in Humboldt or in the town?

David Frank: In Humboldt.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Frank: No, in Humboldt.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

David Frank: Like w- h- answering that question.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

David Frank: So, so in other words, I don't know for sure that I have all the answers.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: Of course I don't. Um, but, like, I wanna learn, and I wanna learn with everybody around here-

Scott Hammond: Mm

David Frank: … because we gotta do it. Um, there's just so much division, right? And so mu-

Scott Hammond: Sure.

David Frank: One of the things I used to say is, um, um, that, uh, apathy is rational. So if you see something that is just affecting your health-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … or, or worse, right, like just, just bringing you down in, in the media, um, people stop looking, and I think that's a rational self-preservation mechanism. And so that makes sense to me.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: Um, but then, you know, when you do decide you want to make a difference, I think local makes the most sense. And so let's just say, like, you know, as a delegate, I, as a placeholder, I thought, well, there's some, there's three things I think worth paying attention to right now when I just run into people in the street, learning more about healthcare, their interactions with healthcare, um, learning, uh, about their interactions with, say, you know, climate,

David Frank: wildfire-

Scott Hammond: Mm

David Frank: … insurance.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: That's like, that's a-

Scott Hammond: Insure-

David Frank: That's a-

Scott Hammond: Oh, wait. Insurance?

David Frank: That, that's a big thing for a lot of people.

David Frank: Like, uh-

Scott Hammond: It's huge

David Frank: … because, because, you know, when you talk to, you know, certain folks, they're like, "I don't really have the first interest in the world about climate."

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: But then you say, "Well, what about, um, power and water and fire-

Scott Hammond: And insurance rates

David Frank: … and insurance?" Yeah, yeah. So, so it brings it down to, to the h- to the base level.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Frank: And then finally, um, just st- I think, um, you know, broadband media-

Scott Hammond: Mm

David Frank: … to, to remote rural areas and getting everybody connected, um, 'cause I think that there's this gap of, uh, not everybody realizes that not everybody can work remotely-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … you know, take classes online, get medical information through telemed, um, all the things a- a- and, and a million things more

David Frank: that-

Scott Hammond: That we take for granted now

David Frank: … that we take for granted, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Is there still a big gap?

David Frank: There really is.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Like-

David Frank: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … it's not just in Appalachia.

David Frank: No, it's here.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Frank: Yeah, totally.

Scott Hammond: I would imagine, yeah. I mean-

David Frank: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … Trinity Valley-

David Frank: Absolutely

Scott Hammond: … you know, Mount Trinity-

David Frank: Yep

Scott Hammond: … I w- would assume that's tough.

David Frank: Yeah, and, uh, without getting super into the weeds on it, just to say, like, th- this and others, right? There are things like this that hit home. Um, and we're, we're not going down this road, but certainly during

David Frank: COVID-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … people, suddenly everything was on our front door.

Scott Hammond: Correct.

David Frank: And, and we were intimately connected with decisions made in Sacramento and decisions made in Washington, D.C.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: But it really, to me, reverts back to how do we engage your original question, and that is we can, I think we solve problems locally. We address problems locally.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: We lead by example-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

David Frank: … as citizens here in our own community, and then we see how that, um, bumps up against larger forces-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … whether it's, um, information, uh, you know, resources, money, power.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: Ho- however we're bumping into the things that are constraining our own,

David Frank: um-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

David Frank: … ability to thrive as individuals, families, and communities.

Scott Hammond: And to your point, we gotta start talking.

David Frank: Absolutely.

Scott Hammond: 'Cause we're not gonna do any of that till we got a dialogue.

David Frank: Absolutely.

Scott Hammond: A ci- a civil, respectful, beyond that, listening dialogue.

David Frank: 100%.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, and I, I, I wonder what format that'll take.

David Frank: And this is my jam, right? This is what I'm throwing myself into it.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Frank: I, so I was recently with family members I hadn't seen in a while, and, and I just, I don't know how it came up, you know, good, talking about good times in the old country. Uh, you know, I played football as a kid, uh, varsity for three years. I, I wrestled some as a kid, and, you know, I, I can take it, whatever it is. Like you pick yourself back up. You know, I, I was in Scouts, and I backpacked and climbed mountains and-

Scott Hammond: You had a big brother that beat up-

David Frank: I had a

Scott Hammond: … probably beat on you.

David Frank: Yeah. Big brother keeps you honest, right? Having three brothers, actually, you know-

Scott Hammond: Cool

David Frank: … that triangulation of, uh, ha- hardening your outer shell-

Scott Hammond: It's good

David Frank: … strengthening your inner core, all that stuff.

Scott Hammond: Mental to-

David Frank: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … mental toughness.

David Frank: Absolutely. Oh, well, my dad was a jump school instructor in Special Forces too.

Scott Hammond: Oh, that's right. You said that once.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So that's great.

David Frank: So that actually really helps a lot.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Frank: You know-

Scott Hammond: So he's a bad-

David Frank: … that whole army of one thing

Scott Hammond: … he was a badass.

David Frank: Totally.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Frank: Absolutely.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

David Frank: 100%. And, and, um, I often say, like my friends would say, "Oh, these are the strictest parents in the, in the community," but, like, I, looking backwards, I benefited from it in a big way. It kept me from, you know, getting outside of my bounds or britches and-

Scott Hammond: Right

David Frank: … understanding, you know, core, core values, integrity-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … um, hard work, and not, that kind of stuff. But anyway, so back to, like, media, how this is gonna play out, um, I don't mind being in the middle of it, um, and, and s- trying to get to the bottom of things where people are gonna disagree with me,

David Frank: um, you know, harshly and-

Scott Hammond: Mm

David Frank: … and, and worse. Now, I, I know that I'm not asking for trouble. There's a lot of trouble out there, but I am asking-

Scott Hammond: Sure

David Frank: … to engage with people who, who-

Scott Hammond: That's good. That's different.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Different motivation.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Whereas Matthew's been in the middle for a long time.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Matt Owen, hey, what's up, Matt?

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And he's, uh, he probably got a lot of heat. He's, he's shared his bunch.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Writing for the Time-Standard and then for-

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Who did, did he, was he local, or is he still?

David Frank: Oh, I don't know. I don't know.

Scott Hammond: I think he writes for I should know that, Matt. Sorry.

David Frank: Yeah. Yeah, but, but so you asked, like, like, what, what is it gonna take? Um, and, and I think that we do need, we do need community

David Frank: forums-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … where we, um, have some g- basic guidelines about what civil discourse

David Frank: looks like-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … and, um, good faith conversations about… You know, on my show, my show's called, uh, You Are Here, where we talk about where we are, where we wanna be, and how we get there.

Scott Hammond: The KMUD show?

David Frank: KMUD show. I made-

Scott Hammond: So pe- this is call-in or just live?

David Frank: People call in, yeah. It's a, it's, it's part of the one-hour format there, uh, for public affair shows that you do have a call-in component.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: And so it varies depending on the particular week.

Scott Hammond: Maybe Zoom as well?

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

David Frank: So we do it by, we do it by Zoom. We, we, you know, people call in, um, besides our guests, or, or, like, sometimes we'll have more than one guest, and we'll give people the number so they can call in and, and be part of it, too. Um, if, yeah, sometimes they're prerecorded, so you can't do that, but-

Scott Hammond: Right

David Frank: … but yeah. I, I think something, you know, community media is the, is a great starting place, and then I think we need to, like, step it up a n- a notch, too-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … um, to take advantage of. We've got some really brilliant people in our community. We've got hardworking people-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

David Frank: … thoughtful people.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

David Frank: Um, but we've also got, like, this, uh, sort of, you know, younger wave of folks who just wonder how everything got so broken.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: Um, and so when you're in the middle of it, you know, I'm, I'm, I just turned 54, so I, I, I think things evolve very slowly.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: And so I try to ta- I usually take the long view, but I, I know a lot of younger folks, they're, they're just, you know, they're not willing to wait.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Yeah.

David Frank: Uh, or at least that's their current, you know, rightfully so, maybe all young people think this-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … until you get a little bit older. And that, so I think that that's, you know, uh, we should channel that energy a

David Frank: little bit-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … um, to, to kinda get more, more voices, um,

David Frank: on-

Scott Hammond: I like that.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Frank: Uh, it's just, I think we'll, we'll all benefit from it.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Had a 21-year-old come in the other night, my son Micah. "Hey, Dad, my generation's broke, man. I, I can't escape the stuff I'm reading on, on my, on this device."

David Frank: Hmm. Yeah.

Scott Hammond: "And it's, it's killing me, and, and, uh, every time I turn around, there's something weirder and weirder." And he goes, and, you know, he, he, he cusses a lot, so he said, "It's really messed

Scott Hammond: up."

David Frank: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: And so he goes, he goes, "I'm thinking about Jesus again."

David Frank: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: I go, "Okay, what do you mean?"

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: He goes, "Where can I start reading besides Genesis?" I said, "Well, try Romans or John or 1 John." He goes, "Okay, Dad." I said, you know, and I thought, "What? I've been telling you this for 21 years, bro." So anyway, Mi-

David Frank: No, but we need the ballast. Not to-

Scott Hammond: To, to your point

David Frank: … not to truck you, but-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

David Frank: … we need, we need ballast-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

David Frank: … and however we get it, um-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

David Frank: … because, uh, in a, in a, you know, there's storms.

Scott Hammond: Oh, uh, maybe we're just getting started. I mean, that's a scary thought, but okay.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Uh, hey, let's do the quiz show and take a break on this, um, and find out a little bit more about your impromptu skills.

David Frank: All right. And I even, hold on, before you hit it, I even asked you if there was any of it, you're like, "No, there's not."

Scott Hammond: No, no, I, I lied.

David Frank: But it's okay. Let's go for it.

Scott Hammond: It's okay. We're friends.

David Frank: Let's go for it. All right.

Scott Hammond: So question number one. Oh, by the way, the big prize. Sponsor of the show, Dutch Brothers. Dutch Brothers Coffee, invented in Grants Pass, Oregon, probably in the '70s by a couple of guys that were Dutch, and they were brothers, could you figure.

David Frank: I believe it.

Scott Hammond: Um, they're on every corner of the street I think in Medford, and we have three locations, and Jill is local manager. She's fabulous. We love her. And, um, go get you a Dutch Brothers, but you haven't won yours yet, so we'll, we'll see about you.

David Frank: Let's do it.

Scott Hammond: I'll set that right here, so keep an eye out. Are you ready?

David Frank: Yes.

Scott Hammond: Question number one.

Scott Hammond: David Frank, for all the Dutch in the world, what's your best day? What happened on your, one of your best days in, in your life?

David Frank: Interesting. Um, so let me start off by saying, you know, when you turn on the, an LG TV, it says, "Life's good."

Scott Hammond: Uh-huh.

David Frank: Um, there have been obviously dark days, um, but overall, I'm really lucky.

Scott Hammond: Good.

David Frank: And I, and I thank my parents-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

David Frank: … uh, for, for all of it. Um, even though life was very hard, um-

Scott Hammond: Are they still living?

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

David Frank: Oh, my, my dad passed, but my mom's still living. I just visited her. That's why I said yes so fast.

Scott Hammond: Oh.

David Frank: Um, but so best day. Oh, my goodness.

David Frank: Um,

David Frank: wow. I mean, I guess, I, I wish, I wish it wasn't so trite- … um, necessarily, but like-

Scott Hammond: It can be trite. It can be trite here.

David Frank: Yeah, but, uh-

Scott Hammond: It's, it's a trite-friendly zone.

David Frank: Yeah, I, um, so working at Internews, um, one of the roles that I had, I, I got hired, like say, uh, whatever the exact day was, like November 26th-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … of, uh, 2012, and then, um, the following week, uh, I was hosting their orientation. So a group of about 20 people fly in from all over the world-

Scott Hammond: Wow

David Frank: … and we do the training, and, and, um, my boss at the time said, "You know, make it, make it your own. Um, your, th- these are your people-"

Scott Hammond: Wow

David Frank: "… like now."

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Frank: And I'd been there, like a bit, I was a temp for a little bit, but basically I was there a week, and they're just like, "You know, these are your

David Frank: people now."

Scott Hammond: Do it, man.

David Frank: Like, "This is your family. Do it." So I, so I just put together a program for the

David Frank: week-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … where we went to different restaurants, we went to different bars, we hiked the coast, we hiked the Redwoods.

Scott Hammond: Wow, that's great.

David Frank: And, and, um, so that's over, you know, people come on, say, a Sunday, and they leave on a Saturday. So, so the, approximately, right? So that Friday night, um, with some brilliant people from all over the world, very kind and thoughtful folks, um, I basically knew, um, after spending a week with them that this works, right? If you get, if you get, um, thoughtful people-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … together, um, in the workplace and in private and in, you know, in, in the woods-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … um, you could actually forge, uh, bonds, like cohort bonds.

Scott Hammond: Right.

David Frank: And, um, and to me, uh, the, the fact that the company trusted me after a week-

Scott Hammond: Wow

David Frank: … to do my own thing-

Scott Hammond: Of course they did

David Frank: But then also, like, fast forward, it perpetuated for the entirety of the time I was there almost until COVID.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Frank: And, um, and so this is a long way of saying, um, we had an event in DC called The Gig, the Global Inner News

David Frank: Gathering.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Frank: And they asked me to MC an event, and so I looked through the list of all the attendees, and I don't remember the exact number, but… And then I compared that list to the, all the cohorts that have ever been through

David Frank: Arcada-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … for their orientation training, and it ended up being, like, I think, you know, 75% of the people in the room.

Scott Hammond: That's cool.

David Frank: We've broken bread here. We've had heart-to-hearts. We've hiked in an… and, and so I was like-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

David Frank: … that, that… I think that feeling that day was like, this is, you

David Frank: know-

Scott Hammond: Nice

David Frank: … there's a world community here.

Scott Hammond: Good connection, relationship.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, I love that. Good answer. Question number two. Worst day of your life.

David Frank: Uh, worst day. Um, so there's,

David Frank: again, uh, there's probably a bunch, but, uh, you know, you don't, you never wanna lose your first job.

Scott Hammond: Right.

David Frank: Uh, so I think-

Scott Hammond: Oh, you lost one too?

David Frank: I, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Weird.

David Frank: Uh, the, the job that I lost that really, like, hit me pretty hard, I think, was, um, at w- at school, at college, at Rutgers. Um, I kinda was, I don't know, too big for my britches or something, and just kinda, like, showed up at work one day, I don't know, like 10 minutes late or something.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Frank: And the boss was not happy.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Frank: And I was, I guess, a little too smug, a little too dismissive.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Frank: Like, "What's the big deal? It's 10 minutes."

Scott Hammond: It's cool, man.

David Frank: I mean, they're like-

Scott Hammond: It's good.

David Frank: Yeah. And, and I knew better, right? 'Cause I was raised not to be that person.

David Frank: Um-

Scott Hammond: Huh

David Frank: … but then they were like, "Yeah, you can just go. You can go home now. You're done."

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Frank: And I-

Scott Hammond: We'll have a check for you

David Frank: … and I was like, "What? Wait, what?"

Scott Hammond: Wait.

David Frank: This is happening? Like-

Scott Hammond: Yes

David Frank: … this has never happened to me before. Rejection, man.

Scott Hammond: It's hard.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: It's hard, man.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Uh, days of tears. Um, question number three.

Scott Hammond: Oops. I'll do three. There. I should ring three bells every time there's a three, number three question.

David Frank: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: So,

Scott Hammond: um, who are you, and what do you want?

David Frank: Hmm.

Scott Hammond: It's a, it's a double question. Who are you, and David, what do you want?

David Frank: Um, so I am a advocas- advocate, facilitator, confidant,

David Frank: friend, and, um, source of strength and empathy, I think.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Frank: Trying to be.

Scott Hammond: Nice.

David Frank: Um, and, and what do I want? Uh, I wanna be able to build bridges where I don't see 'em-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

David Frank: … and step up and identify the vacuums of leadership that we've got.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Frank: 'Cause I'm not patting myself on the back that I'm a leader or that I even know what needs to be done or how to do it, but someone's gotta do better.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Frank: And I just don't see it-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

David Frank: … anywhere, uh, anytime-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … uh, for the most part. And, and I, and I'm overstating that case-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … 'cause there's great people out there.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Frank: But, uh, but just realistically, like, if we had,

David Frank: um, like we talked about a couple minutes ago, if we had a place where we

David Frank: could, um, uh, in good faith, uh, adjudicate the things that need it.

David Frank: Um, so-

Scott Hammond: Nice

David Frank: … like, like, for example, when we talk to, uh, Frankie Myers, the vice chair of the Yurok Tribe, he describes how, in his community, no one gets left behind, ever. Um, so restorative justice, uh, the idea is that, uh, you know, uh, true leadership is figuring out how to accommodate all those obstacles on behalf of, you know, everyone.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: And I know that's, like, ridiculous. It's like, this is utopian, but it's not utopian. It's, if you set it up right-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … you at least have a chance.

Scott Hammond: Got a shot at it.

David Frank: Yeah. So I'd like to be that guy that kinda helps us figure out how we s- you know, get there.

Scott Hammond: Love it. That, great answers. Last question. For all the coffee on this card, what do you find

Scott Hammond: fulfilling, and what do you find sucks your soul dry and soul-crushing?

David Frank: Hmm. This one's a little easier than the others.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Frank: Uh, so fulfilling-

Scott Hammond: I wanna end on a good, easy note.

David Frank: Yeah. So fulfilling, I absolutely love, um, hiking and

David Frank: backpacking.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: And, you know, being here in California, we've got the Sierras.

Scott Hammond: Oh, yeah.

David Frank: And, you know, not just Yosemite, but the whole, the whole range. Um, and, and then also even the Pacific Crest Trail that goes up into our community here.

Scott Hammond: I was gonna ask about that.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Have you, have you done the trail?

David Frank: Um, just different segments of it. So we've got the Trinity Alps here, um, real close. Uh, and, you know-

Scott Hammond: Oh, yeah

David Frank: … not to differentiate between, say, you know, Sequoia or, or, or Trinity or Russians or Marbles, like, any, you know… Point is, um, I love that it's just one foot after the next. Um, there's no… There's nothing. It's you and, and your goal.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Frank: And it's the top, right?

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Frank: So, like, the day I went to the, uh, the High Sierra Trail, to the Sierra Divide, where you get to the middle, and then you, you know, you're, you're halfway to the other side, like, getting to the top of-

Scott Hammond: Where's that at? Where is, is that-

David Frank: Um, it's down in Sequoia. Um, so it's close to, um, Mount Whitney.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

David Frank: So it-

Scott Hammond: So it's the halfway point between-

David Frank: East and west

Scott Hammond: … Mex- Oh, east and west.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

David Frank: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: It's not halfway between the trail-

David Frank: No. No

Scott Hammond: … from-

David Frank: Yeah. So, so, like, that's, to me, that, like, I absolutely love

David Frank: that.

Scott Hammond: The Sierra Divide.

David Frank: Yeah. Just get, get into the, you know, you pass this, uh, rock formation called Valhalla. Uh, so, so, you know, just, you're there, and there's just… It's, it's like, uh, what's the word? You become one with the universe, and you've got nowhere to hide,

David Frank: so to speak.

Scott Hammond: Good one.

David Frank: Absolutely love that.

Scott Hammond: I'm working on that one.

David Frank: Yeah. And so what was the other one, the negative?

Scott Hammond: Yeah, what's, what crushes your soul?

David Frank: So I've had this experience recently.

David Frank: Um-

Scott Hammond: You, you too?

David Frank: Yeah. So, so whether it's, um, you know, I learn from my friends, um, around the world about the different conflicts that they face-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … and how do they even talk about it. And, and so I try to share some of that with friends here.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Frank: And so whatever problem it happens to be, uh, I'm just gonna pick one, right? So just talking about, um, say for example, like the ICE raids that are sweeping through, um, communities.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: And for whatever reason, like we don't have to get into any of the specifics other than to say, I think we need to do better than we're doing.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: If, if we have goals, if we have policy goals about normalizing people's status here, we ought to treat it holistically as opposed to more,

David Frank: um, in a martial way, um, force, blunt force. Um, you know, people used to say if, if every, if the only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. I think that's what appears to be happening. Um, so what really gets to me is trying to start these conversations and realizing what crushes my soul is

David Frank: that we just can't even agree on-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

David Frank: … what's A, what's B, what's C, right? So you try to use logic and reasoning where it's like, you know, if A, then B. If B, then C.

David Frank: It's A.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: So C, right? That's like, that's like logic. It's like a basic way to-

Scott Hammond: 101, 101

David Frank: … try to get people to start talking about how we can come to terms with complex things.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: The problem with that, what's crushing to my soul, is that we don't agree on A

David Frank: or B-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … or C. There's no, there's no logic.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Frank: There's no rationality when we can't even, like, look at the same word and understand what it means.

Scott Hammond: Right.

David Frank: Or look at the same phenomena and understand what it is.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Frank: Um, we're just, you know, we're, we're devolving when it comes to civility and discourse.

Scott Hammond: It's, it's kind of weird. I mean, it almost has a component of a real, what I would call darkness to

Scott Hammond: it.

David Frank: Absolutely.

Scott Hammond: It's just, it's like, this, this is not how it should or was, will was or…

David Frank: No.

Scott Hammond: Um, yeah, bizarre and weird. Well, on that positive note, um,

Scott Hammond: by the way, you've won a Dutch Brothers card.

David Frank: Right on. Thank you.

Scott Hammond: Well done. This, you can take this with you. This is for you.

David Frank: Thank you.

Scott Hammond: You're going, "Yeah, thanks so much."

David Frank: It's cool. Now I got good coffee coming my way. I appreciate it.

Scott Hammond: Absolutely, yeah. Say hi to Jill.

Scott Hammond: The, um, no, uh, good, good, good answers. Um, that one almost made me wanna be your friend for a minute. It's like, hey, I'm a connecting, encouraging guy. I'm going, yeah, kind of, that's kind of my kind of people.

David Frank: Oh, right on.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, no. Good, that's… I love the answers. Um, let me check the time real quick.

David Frank: Okay.

Scott Hammond: Anything you specifically wanted to come on the show and talk about for a sec that maybe you had in mind, that talking point? I've, I've actually never asked that, so I'm, I'm trusting you-

David Frank: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … you to come up with, like, one really, uh, anything particular on your mind

Scott Hammond: today?

David Frank: Um, well, I think we touched upon it, and, and it's, like, what I, what my next steps are, you know, for the, you know, enhancing these dialogues, enhancing these conversations, and really trying to get out in front of it. I, I'm kind of gonna put a little plug in for, um… I had conversations with, uh, with some people both at Cal Poly Humboldt-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … and, um, you know, within the, the state legislature-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … and bounced off them, um, that I really think it'd be a great idea to start, um, you know, community dialogues where we can say, for example, "These are things that you guys are working on up at Cal Poly Humboldt."

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: NCR, College of the Redwoods, these are things you guys are working on.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Frank: Um, faculty and students, why don't you share some of that with the community? So we, we… I like the idea of giving them-

Scott Hammond: That's great

David Frank: … giving them, you know, a, a platform to, to develop their, their skills. And, uh, you know, everybody benefits, whether it's, whether it's you as a person or whether it's, you know, your employer or the people that your job or your company are actually interacting with. If you get practice, um, explaining to people, you know, public speaking-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … presenting, you know, what, what, your project-

Scott Hammond: Wow. Great

David Frank: … or your thesis or your passion, um, it's mutually beneficial to everyone involved. And as a, as a consequence, people, like, that are very busy and maybe aren't gonna investigate what's, this stuff on their own, they have a, they can just check in and be like, "Oh, what, what is happening at the-"

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … comm- you know, whether, like again, Cal Poly or, or CR or even, you know, in the Assembly or the Senate-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … uh, what's going on in, in Sacramento that you guys-

Scott Hammond: Cool

David Frank: … are working on, but then bring it home to people, right?

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: So use the solutions journalism framework-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … to then say, um, "Well, we've got this issue that we're trying to

David Frank: work out."

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: We've got needs, interests, vision. How is Sacramento either blocking it or helping us? How is the academia either blocking it or helping us?

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: And, uh, and I think that that's, to me, that's like a w- it's an enrichment project. That's something that I'm-

Scott Hammond: I like it

David Frank: … got my eye on trying to, trying to-

Scott Hammond: Have a video component to that.

David Frank: Absolutely.

Scott Hammond: And a web component. So I think the three H's, you know, homelessness, housing, and health. I mean, those are-

David Frank: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … I mean, those are maybe too low hanging.

David Frank: No, no.

Scott Hammond: May- maybe those are too obvious, but yeah, I love that, and let's, let's open up the dialogue.

David Frank: They're critically important that we deal with them.

Scott Hammond: How can we, yeah. How can we support Betty Chin?

David Frank: Exactly.

Scott Hammond: You know?

David Frank: I just mentioned her name, um, when I was in Rhode Island-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … actually recently. Um, I said, "You know, I, I interviewed

David Frank: Betty Chin."

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: And I asked her about-

Scott Hammond: Super sweet

David Frank: … about, like, why, you know, if… Because what you're doing is so successful, you're such a positive role model that people come from all over the world. Many s- you know, people come from LA, uh, and, and San Francisco to learn what you're doing and how you're doing it because her success rate, it, you know, it's been a while since I interviewed her, but-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … in effect, it's like 9 out of 10 people.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

David Frank: And she basically says-

Scott Hammond: She's amazing

David Frank: … you just, you know, you, you refrain from drugs, alcohol, violence, and you work. You show up at work.

Scott Hammond: You go to work.

David Frank: She finds a job with different, um, you know, com- companies in the community who commit to this project, and they give, you know, they get a living wage, and she says, you know, at the, at the end of three months, you'll have saved enough money to get your own apartment.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: I think it's like 9 out of 10 people Successfully go through her program

Scott Hammond: It's wonderful, yeah

David Frank: They go from the street to their feet.

Scott Hammond: Like a-

David Frank: 90%.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

David Frank: And so I asked, like, h- "Why is it that, you know, we have so much homelessness here still, and that people around the world haven't really embraced exactly what you're doing?"

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: And she said the number one problem is that it's really hard to, to find people that are capable of being the, kind of the coordinators who-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

David Frank: … it's easy to be someone's friend. It's hard to be their chaperone on a journey from-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

David Frank: … the street to the feet.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

David Frank: And, and just to, to have that-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

David Frank: … perfectly balanced set of supports-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

David Frank: … and encouragement.

Scott Hammond: And we don't pay for stuff like that usually.

David Frank: Yeah. Like that-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

David Frank: … that, that's, training people to have that role would-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

David Frank: … would be an amazing, uh-

Scott Hammond: I like that

David Frank: … this is just one example.

Scott Hammond: She's-

David Frank: Just one example

Scott Hammond: … she's a sweetheart, yeah. Goes on three or four hours of sleep every night. I go, "Aren't you ever in danger?" She goes, "No, I'm not." She's like, "N- never been accosted or anything."

David Frank: Right, right.

Scott Hammond: It's like I'm going, "Okay, cool." Hey, so w- w- as we wrap here, what would you like us to say at your, uh, celebration of life? When, when you go, uh, the words said, the inscription on your tombstone, uh, how do you, how do you think that plays, or how would you like it to play?

David Frank: So I, I had never thought of this before. But, but I have to preface this by saying, um, my father used to tell me all the time that he thought on his tombstone it should say, "Lord, I was born onto this earth, met its people, and damn, was I disappointed." And so that was his way of saying like, "Man, you all are just like…" And he would also say, uh-

Scott Hammond: You people

David Frank: … he would also say, uh, "If, uh, if you guys are the future leaders of America, I'm buying Russian war bonds."

Scott Hammond: Nice.

David Frank: This is a long time ago. Um, as a way, you know, it's, it's, it's obviously tongue in cheek, you know, it's, it's, it's comical. But, uh, but I, I, I'd like to, I'd like to be, um, the one, one of the people who, uh, is able to, um, diminish that li- that sense of discouragement and-

Scott Hammond: Disappointment

David Frank: … dis- disappointment, despair.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: Yeah. Um, uh, you, you hear in our country that despair is so pervasive that it's devastated, uh, you know, the majority of the rural communities in our country.

David Frank: Um, the fact that no one really is, uh, a v- very limited amount of attention is being paid to, like, how do we marshal the forces to hit this head on-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

David Frank: … uh, collaboratively. I don't know what the, what the pithy phrase would

David Frank: be.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: But, but the idea is that, like, you know,

David Frank: just being recognized for standing up and-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

David Frank: … and fighting the good fight. So, so at the end of my show, I say, uh, the end of my show, You Are Here,

David Frank: I say, um, um, you know, "You are the government," basically.

Scott Hammond: Good.

David Frank: Um, fight the good fight.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

David Frank: And, and that's, that's good enough for me. You know, fight… He fought the good fight.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Good word. Love it. Hey, thanks for being here.

David Frank: This was fun.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. I love your heart, man. You got a great heart.

David Frank: Well, right on, I appreciate that.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. I don't… And I'm, and I'm really good about reading people. Until, until I get in a hiring situation. You always hire the-

David Frank: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … go, "They looked so good months ago."

Scott Hammond: Um-

David Frank: Don't know what happened

Scott Hammond: … don't know what happened. And, uh, AI was fairly, uh, accurate until it wasn't, so, uh, good job, AI.

David Frank: Good deal.

Scott Hammond: And, uh, Nick Flores, shout out to, uh, Growing Pains with Nick, the producer. He's amazing. And hey, if you want to, uh, subscribe, if you wanna donate, there's a little thing on my Buzzsprout site. If you want to, uh, sponsor, uh, I'm looking for sponsors. If you wanna, uh, make a nice comment, um, you're more than welcome. And, uh, we'll be back next week with somebody that's 100% Humboldt. And, uh, this is Scott Hammond.

Scott Hammond: Thank you, David Frank. Appreciate you being here.

David Frank: Right on. This is, this was fun. Thanks for having me, Scott.

Scott Hammond: Y- y'all come back now.

David Frank: You hear.

Scott Hammond: You hear?