Episode 2 · Leonard LaFrance · June 11, 2023
Leonard LaFrance joins Scott Hammond to talk about community safety, crisis response, autism awareness, and what it looks like to lead with human connection inside Humboldt County policing.
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What this episode covers
- Leonard LaFrance’s path from the East Coast to Humboldt
- His move from wildfire work into the Eureka Police Department
- The Community Safety Engagement Team and de-escalation work
- Autism awareness, training, and meeting people where they are
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Transcript
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Scott Hammond: Hey, Scott Hammond, 100% Humboldt with my, uh, new best friend, Leonard LaFrance. How's it going?
Leonard LaFrance: It's going.
Scott Hammond: How's EPD?
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, busy. Very busy.
Scott Hammond: You guys are always, always busy. W- and we're big fans, uh, at State Farm 'cause my office is downtown, and you guys are always amazing. So, uh, tell me a little bit about, uh, Leonard. How did you get here? You said Upstate New York?
Leonard LaFrance: Sure, yeah. I was, uh, born in New Hampshire. Uh, barely made the, uh, made the 70s by about 10 months. And, uh, I think around five, when I was five or six we moved from, uh, New Hampshire, uh, Nashua-
Scott Hammond: Mm
Leonard LaFrance: … which is, uh, it's about an- 45 minutes north of Boston. Uh, so it's kind of almost a suburb of Boston.
Scott Hammond: It's over the border, right? So-
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah, it's just over the border. Um, so you can go to New Hampshire and, you know, you do your shopping and it's, there's no, no taxes. Um-
Scott Hammond: Oh, nice. Like Oregon.
Leonard LaFrance: Kinda like Oregon, yeah. So we, uh, ended up in, uh, northern New York, uh, about th- two and a half, three hours north of Albany and just south of Montreal, Quebec.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, and I lived there for what, uh, to about '97. But in the meanwhile, you know, I was… I went to a, a private boarding school. Uh, I was not wealthy-
Scott Hammond: Wow
Leonard LaFrance: … but our church, uh, sent me to a, uh, by choice, to a, a boarding school-
Scott Hammond: Wow
Leonard LaFrance: … in a little place called Union Springs. Um-
Scott Hammond: Way upstate?
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, it's actually, it was actually south from where I, where I was growing up on, uh, next, just west of Syracuse-
Scott Hammond: Okay
Leonard LaFrance: … on Lake Cayuga. And spent four years there, and I went to college in Nebraska. Uh, I had a-
Scott Hammond: Wow
Leonard LaFrance: … did my f- my first degree is a s- I had an associate's in fire science. I was gonna be a firefighter.
Scott Hammond: Okay.
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, as my father and grandfather and other grandfather and my cousins and family. And then, uh, 2000 I graduated, and I was offered a job with the US Forest Service, uh, out of-
Scott Hammond: Mm
Leonard LaFrance: … Mad River on Highway 36.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Leonard LaFrance: And then about six months later I was given a, a permanent seasonal job with them.
Scott Hammond: Oh.
Leonard LaFrance: And, uh, yeah, in 2000, so I ended up here about 20, yeah, 23 years ago.
Scott Hammond: From fire to police.
Leonard LaFrance: Fire to police, yep.
Scott Hammond: Wow, okay. What part of Nebraska?
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, Lincoln. So-
Scott Hammond: So you went to U of N?
Leonard LaFrance: No, I went to, uh, Southeast Community College.
Scott Hammond: Okay.
Leonard LaFrance: And then I also went to Union College, which is a, a p- a private college in Lincoln. So-
Scott Hammond: Mm
Leonard LaFrance: … Lincoln's a cool town. Uh, it's a college town.
Scott Hammond: Lincoln is a cool town.
Leonard LaFrance: If you're in your 20s, that's the, that's the place-
Scott Hammond: Yeah
Leonard LaFrance: … to be.
Scott Hammond: We're from Sioux City, Iowa, so we're-
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah
Scott Hammond: … upriver a little ways. So yeah, Midwest people are always solid.
Leonard LaFrance: Very, yeah. It's like, it's a … I loved Lin- living in Lincoln, so-
Scott Hammond: Yeah. Hey, all you Midwest people, you're solid.
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah, they are solid.
Scott Hammond: Shout out to the Midwest. So, so that's what brought you here. Did you f- meet your… Are you a family guy? I assume you …
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Leonard LaFrance: So I, uh, uh, in the mean- when I came to California, I actually left, uh, for a couple years and went back to Vermont. I actually-
Scott Hammond: Mm
Leonard LaFrance: … I was with the US Forest Service. I got a, a transfer to, I was, I actually ran a fire engine in Vermont for a couple years.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, met my wife, and then once, in 2005 I'm like, "I'm going back to California." Uh, fire seasons are pretty slow on the East Coast.
Scott Hammond: Yes, they are.
Leonard LaFrance: And-
Scott Hammond: Well, not right now.
Leonard LaFrance: Not right now. N- uh, yeah. It's, it-
Scott Hammond: It's, it's in Canada, right?
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah, it's in-
Scott Hammond: Aren't the fires in Canada?
Leonard LaFrance: I actually fought fire in Canada in 2005. It was interesting, in Quebec.
Scott Hammond: Oh, wow.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, but yeah. Met my wife. Uh, came back out here to my, actually my old job with the Six Rivers National Forest as a squad leader on the, what's now the Mad River Hotshots. And then, uh-
Scott Hammond: Mm
Leonard LaFrance: … she came out and about a year or two later I was, saw an opening for EPD and, uh, applied. And I think I, there's about 125 applicants and about two of us, I think two of us out of 125 made it-
Scott Hammond: Wow
Leonard LaFrance: … through the whole process.
Scott Hammond: So what drew you to law enforcement from fire?
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, I think personality. Um, it's much-
Scott Hammond: Okay
Leonard LaFrance: … much more of a fitting personality for me.
Scott Hammond: Sure.
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, plus with the Forest Service, it was great. You know, you fought a lot of fires, but you're also gone for six months of the year.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, the pay wasn't phenomenal.
Scott Hammond: Mm.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, it was a lot of fun. You traveled a lot. But, um, when you're gone for six months of the year, um, I just needed some stability.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Seems like you're a personal guy, so we're gonna talk about what you do here in a minute. Um, uh, what do you do here in a minute? What, what's your, what's your role at EPD?
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah. So, uh, I'm a police commander, so, which means that, uh, I, I oversee half the department. So I oversee investigations and special teams-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … uh, and property. So, uh, so any kind of major crime, um, technically I'd be the commander. I have a s- I have a sergeant who works, uh, under- underneath me-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … or works with me, and then he has his team. Uh, we have our community safety engagement team, which is our, our mental health homeless outreach, uh, crisis intervention team-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … um, that I actually helped start back in 2018 when I was a sergeant.
Scott Hammond: Is that, uh, Officer Swanen?
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, Swanson. Yep.
Scott Hammond: Swanson.
Leonard LaFrance: Yep.
Scott Hammond: Great guy.
Leonard LaFrance: Yep. He was the MIST officer for, uh, with, uh, that team for a while. Um, so I oversee that team, uh, property-
Scott Hammond: Mm
Leonard LaFrance: … and a bunch of other positions. Um, and then the other side of the house would be the patrol house-
Scott Hammond: Okay
Leonard LaFrance: … which right now is Commander Hill and will be Commander Rabang here momentarily.
Scott Hammond: Wow. Yeah, I saw, uh, Ryan in action. He's great. Just-
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah
Scott Hammond: … just talking to people, just having a conversation.
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah. That's really what, you know, with that, uh, that mental health team, that's really what-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … we, we do. We build rapport. Uh, we, you know, meet people where they're at. We go upstream. We try to connect with people.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: This way when they go into full-on crisis we're able to deescalate them fairly quickly-
Scott Hammond: Yeah
Leonard LaFrance: … or they comply.
Scott Hammond: I love it.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, but nowadays most of the time I d- I either go to, I'm in meetings or I'm-
Scott Hammond: Wow
Leonard LaFrance: … uh, which is fine 'cause that's, you know, that's, that's how you're helping w- create policy and creating, uh, streamlining services and creating influence to really move programs forward-
Scott Hammond: Sure
Leonard LaFrance: … that need to, need to happen and, um, so I'm always meeting interesting people and trying to make thing, or trying to fix problems and trying to make things better.
Scott Hammond: Good. That's a good way to look at it, as opposed to, "It's another Zoom call. I'm on the half-hour."
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Um, yeah. No, that's, seems like that goes that way a lot, so. Well, cool. Uh, so tell me a little bit more about you and Kim Smalley at the Regional Center and how you inter- interact with, uh, uh, Regional Center here. Uh, it's actually Regional Center number one in California. That's their designation.
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah, it's kind of it meant to be. Um, it's, it's kind of a, a unique scenario. Uh, you know, we n- we, within CSET obviously we work with people that are in crisis, people that have disabilities. Um, I teach classes on deescalation.
Scott Hammond: And CSET is again what?
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, community safety engagement team.
Scott Hammond: Okay.
Leonard LaFrance: So when I was with that team, you know, we were heavily involved and worked with people, uh, in that realm as well.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, what I didn't know is that my, my personal world would, would also become engaged with that world as well.
Scott Hammond: Ah.
Leonard LaFrance: And so when my son was diagnosed with autism, um, so, uh, so here I am in my professional world and my personal world, they kinda collide together and-
Scott Hammond: It happens, yeah
Leonard LaFrance: … it, it happens. And, uh, so it just kinda worked out well that we, uh-You know, started teaching classes together. Uh, I met her with the, during the crisis intervention training we have every year-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … uh, which is a 40-hour class, uh, led by law enforcement and the county, uh, behavioral health.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: And we were teaching a class on, uh, autism and law enforcement engagement. Uh, we did that a couple times, um, and some other classes I think also. And eventually she asked me last year if I can go down to Sacrame- or to Ukiah.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Leonard LaFrance: And they had a, they had a two-day seminar, um, for law enforcement. Uh, and so they asked me to be one of the, one of the key speakers or person that was there from the law enforcement side to help, uh, teach, uh, how, how to best en-engage people on the spectrum, uh, for law enforcement.
Scott Hammond: And people on the spectrum are everywhere.
Leonard LaFrance: It's the spectrum. It's a way… Like my son, you– If you met my son, you'd, you would think he's a normal kid-
Scott Hammond: Right
Leonard LaFrance: … um, a normal nine-year-old, and then once you hang out-
Scott Hammond: Good
Leonard LaFrance: … a little bit enough with him, he obviously has some social and communication deficits, um-
Scott Hammond: You do. Yeah
Leonard LaFrance: … but otherwise you'd, you would never know.
Scott Hammond: Yeah. Yeah, no, I understand the… So, so you're– So we have Gabriel, he's 23, he's got autism and Down syndrome, and he's, uh, he's, he's my hero. Gabriel's always in, in happy land, and so I get it. Uh, so your role then is to take your knowledge, your experience, your expertise with folks with autism and on the spectrum and go inform other, other, other teams and other individuals about how, how, how to deal with that best on the streets.
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah, especially, specifically with, with law enforcement.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: So obviously there's lots of, uh, you know, mi-mis-misunderstandings about autism or if you see, you know, an individual stimming, uh, of course, you know, an officer could think they're under the influence, which is not true.
Scott Hammond: Right.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, so how do we, how do we approach that? How do we slow things down? How do we look for-
Scott Hammond: Yeah
Leonard LaFrance: … signs and symptoms of autism? Um, how do we appropriately engage somebody? Um, how do we, you know, just sitting, do you sit close? Do you, you know, do you, you know, do you… You know, there's no– Usually the rule for us is-
Scott Hammond: Space
Leonard LaFrance: … there's no space, there's no touching unless it's absolutely necessary.
Scott Hammond: Right.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, unless you're a fireman, then if there's a fire, obviously that's the one rule that-
Scott Hammond: You can touch them
Leonard LaFrance: … Dr. Smalley has, is you can grab them and go.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, but our rule for police is unle-unless absolutely necessary, we don't touch, um-
Scott Hammond: Sure
Leonard LaFrance: … a-at all 'cause it can create a major, major issue. Um, and the, the really the goal for us as we look at it is when we engage these, these, our s- our community members that have autism-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … um, that, you know, that are in our community, we're making sure our, our response is appropriate, um, but also we're limiting the possibility of a misunderstanding that leads to use of force.
Scott Hammond: Sure.
Leonard LaFrance: And there's videos, I think you can go on YouTube and find videos of-
Scott Hammond: Tons of stuff
Leonard LaFrance: … of stuff with law enforcement and misunderstandings or just bad, uh, bad approaches or-
Scott Hammond: Right. Stuff that didn't need to happen
Leonard LaFrance: … stuff that I think that we can, you know… Sometimes you can't change everything, but there– You can look back-
Scott Hammond: Yeah
Leonard LaFrance: … and say, "Hey, for sure this, this should have been different."
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: And then how do we, how do we help people and show them a better way?
Scott Hammond: So in your experience, is there are a lot of people on the street, say in Humboldt, all over, that were- are on the spectrum that are just somehow, whether they're homeless or not, uh, but they're on the street and they're maybe late, late at night or in a weird spot. Is that, is that common to have somebody on the spectrum hanging out?
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, I don't think that common. Um, although I just pulled the current data 'cause I'm teaching a class I think next week with, uh, Jacob Rosen, our clinician for the city.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, so, uh, the numbers now in California, one in 22 people in California have been, uh, have autism.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Leonard LaFrance: That's the, the data and then of course, uh, boys are four times more likely than girls to have autism.
Scott Hammond: Looking around the room here, I'm going, "Oh, that's gotta be one of us."
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah. And, you know, and then nationally it's one in 36, um, people nationally-
Scott Hammond: Wow
Leonard LaFrance: … uh, based on the, on the research. Um, so we don't– I don't think, like our homeless community, which we work with, um, w- I'm sure some of the folks we know have autism.
Scott Hammond: Sure.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, but most of the time, you know, the folks that we're gonna engage with are likely kids that are, uh, at school or they're having, you know, there's an issue, there's a behavior issue, or they're eloping. Um-
Scott Hammond: Okay
Leonard LaFrance: … that's often 'cause, uh, also underneath my division is also our school resource officers. And so-
Scott Hammond: So you're saying, like a lot of kids.
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, yeah, k- yeah.
Scott Hammond: Like, like not adults.
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, most- I think mostly, I mean, we do obviously engage with adults as well-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … but it seems currently a lot of the kids that, or a lot of the f- people on the spectrum we're dealing with are gonna be, you know, adolescents.
Scott Hammond: Wow. So eloping, problematic at home, whatever.
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Leonard LaFrance: And then-
Scott Hammond: Yeah
Leonard LaFrance: … adults, occasionally adults, you know, we'll have calls from, uh, places like Changing Tides or these service providers-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … they'll actually ask us to come out to the, to the residence where the person's living, actually meet with them-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … um, you know, get to know them a little bit, build a rapport, so when they do go into a meltdown or a crisis mode, when we show up, they're like, "Hey, how's it going, LaFrance?"
Scott Hammond: "Hey, what's up?" Yeah.
Leonard LaFrance: And I'm like, "Hey." And I, plus I know, you know, hey, this is what's soothing to them. This is how they, you know, this is how, uh, this is what we can do to actually make it better, not worse.
Scott Hammond: Right. Right. I brought-
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah
Scott Hammond: … I brought my guitar.
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Leonard LaFrance: And, and that would actually, if, if I play guitar, that would, that would be an option. Um-
Scott Hammond: Yeah. That's good
Leonard LaFrance: … you know, because there's nothing off the table when someone's in crisis. Um, as long as it's moral, ethical, within policy and the, and the law-
Scott Hammond: Yeah
Leonard LaFrance: … uh, we're gonna try it because what are the outcomes we want is everyone to go home-
Scott Hammond: I like it
Leonard LaFrance: … and people to get better, so.
Scott Hammond: I like it. I like the positive approach there. So, um, as you look at Humboldt, um, I'm gonna ask you about your top three, uh, what do you see the top three challenges are in terms of, uh, crime enforcement, crime prevention? Um, what, what, what do you see personally as your, your, your three Goliaths that you're fighting?
Leonard LaFrance: I think it kind of all rolls into… They're all, they're all correlated, so I think the biggest thing is obviously homelessness.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: That's the biggest complaint we have.
Scott Hammond: Sure.
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, and I would agree, if you drive down Broadway or Fourth and Fifth, you just see it's in your face, you see it.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, but again, correlated with that is also mental health or mental illness, and then also substance use. And if we had to add a fourth, um, as we're, as we peel back, I always call it peeling back the onion-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … um, the core is gonna be childhood trauma.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: And, you know, we look at our ACEs scores for, uh, adverse childhood experiences for Humboldt County. Uh, last I knew we had 30% of our population has a score of four or higher, and the four or higher is the trigger point for negative impacts to physical health-
Scott Hammond: Crazy
Leonard LaFrance: … mental health. And so that's-
Scott Hammond: It's almost a third?
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah, almost a third.
Scott Hammond: A third have a four or higher.
Leonard LaFrance: Would have a four or higher.
Scott Hammond: Oh my gosh.
Leonard LaFrance: And then, and then a one or higher is, I can't remember the percent, but, um… We haven't seen the, I haven't seen the most recent data on it, but we're still not sitting good.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: And I'm not sure, being an outsider coming into Humboldt, uh, even an outsider into California, the West Coast, you know, I wonder, uh, there's obviously some value difference between like the East Coast and West Coast.
Scott Hammond: Sure.
Leonard LaFrance: Where West Coast is, uh-It's definitely a lot more progressive. It's definitely s- different, not as, definitely not as conservative as, as the East Coast, even though they share some-
Scott Hammond: Ri- maybe rigid, is that a good word?
Leonard LaFrance: Rigid is maybe a better word, 'cause it's not really political, it's just how we-
Scott Hammond: For- formal
Leonard LaFrance: … it's how we approach the world.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Leonard LaFrance: And so I'm not sure how that works with the va- with, you know, with the values within the system. And then Humboldt, of course, we look, you know, if we could define the values here, um, you know, I think in many regards we're seeing high crime rates for 136,000 people. It's not a lot of people.
Scott Hammond: Right.
Leonard LaFrance: And yet we see, you know, you know, look at the homicides, look at the missing people. Um-
Scott Hammond: Yeah
Leonard LaFrance: … and it's just, it's just, it's very interesting to me to, you know, can you define it? I don't, I don't know, but-
Scott Hammond: Can you attribute that, and, and this may not be a popular question, but it, it's an honest question, uh, to the cannabis industry and its, its influence over 50 years here?
Leonard LaFrance: I th- two to- be, be, again, being an outsider looking in-
Scott Hammond: The industry and the, the whole …
Leonard LaFrance: Y- yeah, I th- I think from, from my opinion, looking from the outside, looking in from an out, being, again, not living here, or, you know, not originally coming from here-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … but looking inside, I think the, the values, again, you know, what are the values in-
Scott Hammond: Mm
Leonard LaFrance: … in that, you know, I guess micro culture of our community. You know, it's money, it's wealth-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … it's having big trucks, it's making as much as you can.
Scott Hammond: Sure.
Leonard LaFrance: It's not following the rules. It's hiring people and then disposing of them. Um-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … it's, you know, part, you know, hu- there's human trafficking involved in that as well.
Scott Hammond: Sure.
Leonard LaFrance: And so I think that's part of it, um, that, you know, that, you know, we, you know, for a long time weed is just normal. You meet most kids nowadays here in Humboldt-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … you know, they're smoking weed by 12. It's a normal thing to do.
Scott Hammond: Right.
Leonard LaFrance: Where for me, um, I've actually never used cannabis ever.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Leonard LaFrance: I've never had a desire to. Um-
Scott Hammond: Good for you
Leonard LaFrance: … you know, and if, if as an adult it's legal, if you wanna use it, hallelujah to you.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Go, go for it, but I think just the, the men- you know, the, it appears the, the value system with that is just, it kinda throws everything-
Scott Hammond: Mm
Leonard LaFrance: … out of whack a little bit compared to the rest-
Scott Hammond: Yeah
Leonard LaFrance: … of the nation.
Scott Hammond: You know, Sheriff Downey, uh, told me 25 years ago, we were camping, he was homeschool dad, and we were in a thing, but he said, you know, he was sheriff down in Miranda in southern Humboldt. He goes, "It's just the value system is different generationally already. Kids don't, you know, they've learned that money is not that valuable, and they're just, and so it escalates into other drugs and other pleasures and weirdness," and it's like, he goes, "It, it is really weird. It, it is a whole different, different deal." And I think, um, I don't wanna go too far off on those guys. Or i- it's sad. It, it, to me it's a sadness and the… I, I am gonna rant for a minute. My rant is that some of those guys kill the environment. And so all you f- environmental friends, these guys are, you know, torturing the environment and, you know, uh, I remember he said he could, there's 7,000 grows, he could, he could attack about 70 of them if he gets lucky this year. And I go, "Wow, that's a big job."
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah. And I think, you know, a lot of it's the value, what's the value, the sanctity of life, and that's where, you know, if you can view other people that will come to your property and you'll just dispose of them when you're done, like we've seen before with a couple homicides.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, it's just a different way of living.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Leonard LaFrance: And it, and it just-
Scott Hammond: And that's the Murder, the Murder Mountain stuff?
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah, I mean, it, yeah, it just doesn't v- match the values of what I f- I see as, you know, everyone has value, no matter, you know, you know, I, we look at a lot of our folks on the streets-
Scott Hammond: Sure
Leonard LaFrance: … and of course people say they have no value, but they do. It may take-
Scott Hammond: They're human beings, man
Leonard LaFrance: … it may take a while to push back the behavior and see that value and that spark of life-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … but it's there.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: And that, that's just my, that's how I view the world though, and so I don't, I just think the value system's a little bit off sometimes.
Scott Hammond: They're weird.
Leonard LaFrance: Um-
Scott Hammond: Yeah. I've heard a term Imago Dei, which is image of God, so hey man, um, I could've been a homeless guy.
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Instead I got nine kids, so-
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah
Scott Hammond: … sometimes I wonder which is better. No, I'm kidding. So, uh, no, I appreciate that, and, and to be, in all fairness to the growers or grow industry, there's a ton of amazing, beautiful people that are doing it right, that do, wanna do it right, and wanna make it a good thing for everybody and make it a win-win, and, uh, it's sad that there's that abuse. And moving on to, uh, so, so the top four problems then kind of all, in your mind, coalesce-
Leonard LaFrance: They do
Scott Hammond: … and play on one another. So what, what, um, how do you propose to fix all that?
Leonard LaFrance: Y-
Scott Hammond: 'Cause I, I realize that law enforcement's supposed to fix all our problems, which is, I'm being facetious completely, but what, um, what are you guys doing, uh, and, and I mean the autism program too, but what are you, what are you guys doing to really make a dent in that? 'Cause I think it's up to all of us to, to dent it and try to make it better.
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah, that's the great question, right? Uh, and I've been, you know, of course from 2018 to up to the last, end of last year, I was obviously running s- running CSET, uh, as a supervisor, and I mean, very, very much that was my life for five years.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: It's still a g- big portion of my life now, what, you know, working with the department. Um, but the solutions are, one, uh, what, what, what can we do?
Scott Hammond: Mm.
Leonard LaFrance: What's in our control? So one is the human connections we make every day with the folks on the street.
Scott Hammond: Yeah, yeah.
Leonard LaFrance: So we know them by name, uh, you know, we know where they stay, we know their, we connect with their families if we need to. We try to find out the underlying cause of why they're on the street.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Is it substance use? Is it mental health? Uh, what, how can we fix that and actually address that? Um, but it all starts with-
Scott Hammond: Yeah
Leonard LaFrance: … the human connection. So if you, if you see me walking down the street, they're like, "Hey, hey LaFrance."
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: You know, that's just the conversation we have, and it's a wave, it's a, it's a hello every day.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, but that also leads into like, you know, accountability and voluntary compliance and, in unwanted behavior. Uh, so I think the personal connections is the number one most important thing.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, but you also have to be where people are at. So you can't sit in your office all day and expect people to come to you.
Scott Hammond: Right.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, as social workers, and we're not social workers, but we do a lot of social work.
Scott Hammond: Yes, you do.
Leonard LaFrance: You have, you have to go where people are.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: So you have to go out into the field, you have to go down to the service centers.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, you have to connect with people there and, and connect with the staff and become very good friends with them as well, because they're good people.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: And they can help people. And then also learn how to work the system here. Um, so how do we get people from, into a rehab center? So we have connections with, you know, Waterfront Recovery-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … HRC Crossroads. Uh, so who do I call when I have an issue?
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: And I, and immediately can streamline that person into-
Scott Hammond: So you know who these guys are.
Leonard LaFrance: Yep. And sa- you know, same thing with mental health.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, if we have an issue with mental health, how can we streamline that person?
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Or if the system's not working for us, how do we backdoor the system? So for example, we've had folks that had hundreds of calls for service a year on them. A lot of it was mental health with drugs, but of course whenever there's the co-occurring, which is very common. Uh, but if it's so heavy on the drug side, people are un- often unwilling to help them.
Scott Hammond: Sure.
Leonard LaFrance: And so if they can't, then we would, in theory, um, we will look at what can we legally do as officers to-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … address the problem.So we start making arrests, which we can lawfully do. It's in our, it's in our purview.
Scott Hammond: Sure.
Leonard LaFrance: It's, it's, it's right, it's lossless, moral, ethical, within policy, within the law. Uh, and then we work through the court system, say, "Hey, DA's office, we have Bob here. Bob's causing a lot of problems."
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: "Bob has an addiction issue with methamphetamine or whatever."
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: "He likely has a mental health disorder." Um, "Hey, public defender," same thing, "Let's work together on this to get a long-term solution."
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Leonard LaFrance: Whether it's either going to rehab or s- you know, sobering up for jail in six months, then going to rehab-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … or c- be, uh, get him conserved. Whatever it is-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … uh, we have to look at those options. 'Cause their, their impact is so negative that we have to do something.
Scott Hammond: Sure. Sure. I remember, uh, everybody used to accuse Pelican Bay or Bay Area, you know, law enforcement shipping their guys up here, and, uh, is that true? Did, did they ever, uh, y- one-way ticket, you know, grayhound b- to Eureka, bro.
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah, I know from Pelican Bay people can be discharged here on parole.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, but we have, we've heard rumors of an influx of people coming from a s- from Southern California here.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: It has not been confirmed yet.
Scott Hammond: Mm.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, I know that back in, I can't remember how many years ago it was, it was someone sending people to Oakland or Oakland to somewhere else.
Scott Hammond: Mm.
Leonard LaFrance: But then they, there's a lawsuit. It was, like, $400,000 per person.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, so s- for example, we can, if we meet someone on the street and they wanna go back home to family … Example, we had a f- a gentleman, North Dakota-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … that wanted to go back to his family. Um, and so we met with him. He had pending charges on him also-
Scott Hammond: Wow
Leonard LaFrance: … for, like, a misdemeanor.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Leonard LaFrance: So we, our staff, we have professional staff with CSET. They c- they contacted the, uh, family directly in North Dakota, said, "Hey, we have your, we have your, your brother here. He wants to go back home with you."
Scott Hammond: Oh.
Leonard LaFrance: "Are you guys willing to take him, yes or no?" Well, yeah, like, they said yes. So we're like, "Cool." Then we have to get buy-in from him also to go.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: And then we also, we have a, we have an issue with the court. So we say, "Hey, hey, DA's office, he has a pending misdemeanor. It's a minor charge. Uh, can it, if we get him to go back home, can we dismiss it?" And then we'll talk to the victim of the crime and say-
Scott Hammond: Wow
Leonard LaFrance: … "Hey, here's the plan. Instead of going to court and going the whole process, he actually wants to go back home to, you know, cross-country."
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, "Are you willing to, you know, are you okay if we just, if we choose not to prosecute this?"
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, usually people say, "Absolutely." Um-
Scott Hammond: Yeah
Leonard LaFrance: … and so, like, that gentleman, he was causing, I think, at least 100 calls for service a year, but we called back to the family. We confirmed their address. We confirmed he had a place to stay. We do all this, all this important work to make sure we're not-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … just dumping him. And then once we confirm, you know, go through steps through A through Z, we actually, um, send, you know, send him on his way, either-
Scott Hammond: Wow
Leonard LaFrance: … by, by bus or, uh, usually by bus, but we could fly people out if we had to.
Scott Hammond: Wow. Bless you guys.
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: It's amazing.
Leonard LaFrance: But it has to- we just, we're just, we're just not dropping people. We're doing all the work to make sure they're actually-
Scott Hammond: Way more, way more behind it.
Leonard LaFrance: I mean, we actually even Google the addresses to make sure there's actually a house there.
Scott Hammond: Oh.
Leonard LaFrance: So, um… And same with the rehab centers. So if we fly people out for rehab centers-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … we connect the dots. We c- talk to the rehab folks, say, "Hey, you know, Bob's gonna be there at, you know, his-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … his plane lands at 3:00." And then, of course, they pick him up. They call us, say, "Hey, he got here. We have him."
Scott Hammond: Nice.
Leonard LaFrance: So.
Scott Hammond: Nice. So Sempervirens is pretty small, right?
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Very few beds.
Leonard LaFrance: It's about f- I think it's, I think it's f- don't quote me on this. It's, I think it's 15 or 16 beds on SV. It's been-
Scott Hammond: For three, three counties?
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, yeah, technically.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Leonard LaFrance: I think, yeah. Del Norte has nothing, and then Mendocino has nothing. There's actually not many mental health s- hospitals in California anymore.
Scott Hammond: Wow. But they have some beds, and they, they take some of the harder cases.
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah. It just depends on, you know, it depends, um, 'cause, uh, you know, often, right now all mental health holds go through the ER-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … which has been obviously challenging. Um, and we work-
Scott Hammond: Oh, yeah
Leonard LaFrance: … and we work with St. Joe's closely, uh, their ER staff, their admin, very closely on-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … uh, we're, they're practically our s- they're ex- our, our extended family.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, but they go to the ER first, and then they get either sent out of the area, or they get sent locally.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, but there's not enough beds. Across the nation, there's not enough beds.
Scott Hammond: Yeah. Really issue close to my heart. I have a 21-year-old who was suicidal at 15.
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: And he got a 5150 and, you know, day at St. Joe's and then eight days at the, um, John Muir Hospital.
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: And wherever that is. And yeah, hard, hard story, but got to meet Ryan and different people-
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah
Scott Hammond: … and so interface with the, with the team a little bit.
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah, and eve- and, you know, eventually the, you know, na- statewise we have to look at, you know, how are we gonna fund, you know, better programs, more mental health hospitals.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, I think they're gonna change the laws a little bit for, for gravely disabled, for 5150, to include SUD or substance use disorder as well-
Scott Hammond: Mm
Leonard LaFrance: … to a degree. Um-
Scott Hammond: Yeah
Leonard LaFrance: … but again, you, you get people on the street, you get them stabilized, and then where do they go after that?
Scott Hammond: Where do they go?
Leonard LaFrance: And, and so that's the, you know, that's what we've been work- working on for the city is, uh, some tr- uh, transitional housing. So we'll have the project on Hillfigure coming up. We're looking at another project-
Scott Hammond: Wow
Leonard LaFrance: … um, that is, you know, it's staffed. It's not just like, "Hey, just go live here. High five. We did an awesome job." It's no.
Scott Hammond: Right.
Leonard LaFrance: Like, "Here's a place to live. We're gonna support you. We're gonna give you case management. We're gonna give you SUD support-"
Scott Hammond: Wow
Leonard LaFrance: … mental health support, employment support." This way you bring people back into the fold, not just say, "Hey, you know, we solved the problem. High five. We move on."
Scott Hammond: Complex problem.
Leonard LaFrance: But we have to bring them back into the fold and teach them how to live again-
Scott Hammond: Right
Leonard LaFrance: … and how to live o- you know, how to live even in housing. If you've been homeless for, you know, 25 years, you may not have used a toilet and, you know, or cooked.
Scott Hammond: You know-
Leonard LaFrance: And so-
Scott Hammond: … yeah. Pay rent? What's that?
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah. Exactly.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Leonard LaFrance: You know. And so plus if you have ongoing mental health issues or, you know, substance use issues, you also have to address those as well. So it's-
Scott Hammond: Sure
Leonard LaFrance: … some people think, you know, it's easy as giving someone a house, and then, you know, it's, we're done. But it's much, much, much more complex than that.
Scott Hammond: Really tough. Really tough. So how does, how do you guys interface with, say, CHP or the sheriff's department or even other law enforcement? Do you, as EPD, I mean, what does that look like day-to-day or, uh, paperwork or when you, you know, when you're on a case like the, the sheriff's that shot the two guys? I, you guys were probably backup on that, but how does that all work?
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, it, it really depe- uh, it depends.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, so, like, the, in that instance, you know, we, it happened in the city, so actually I heard the call come out, um, on the radio, uh, you know, dispatch advisor, shots fired, so I immediately… I was actually at 4th and, I think 4th and V just to go through that way, and then-
Scott Hammond: So everybody just converges-
Leonard LaFrance: Converges
Scott Hammond: … towards.
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah. And so, you know, we, you know, luckily there's, the chief was there, the assistant chief was there, um, I was there, Commander Hill was there, and so in, in essence, we set up a, a command or unified command with, with the sheriff's office.
Scott Hammond: Is that county or is that sheriff's?
Leonard LaFrance: Sheriff. That's-
Scott Hammond: Okay
Leonard LaFrance: … that'd be our jurisdiction here.
Scott Hammond: Oh, it was? Okay.
Leonard LaFrance: It was in our ci- in the city, yeah.
Scott Hammond: But they were on site first?
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah. Well, they were, yeah, they were involved in the incident inside the city.
Scott Hammond: Gotcha.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, but you know, they, you know, the sheriff's office backs us, backs us on calls if we don't have people to go to a certain, like, a p- in progress call, we can call the sheriff's office.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, if we have, you know, collisions-Uh, you know, CHP has arrived to help out before, um, you know-
Scott Hammond: Mm
Leonard LaFrance: … for us for like with our criminal investigations unit, or CIU.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, we've worked with, with Fortuna. Fortuna's been awesome to work with.
Scott Hammond: Mm.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, they assisted us with, uh, several, uh, investigations here in Eu- in Eureka that rolled over into Fortuna as well.
Scott Hammond: Mm.
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, for the officer-involved shooting, uh, you know, they're providing f- uh, everybody from, uh, of course the sheriff's office, uh-
Scott Hammond: Sure
Leonard LaFrance: … CHP, uh, Pelican Bay, uh, Ferndale, Fortuna, all help with coverage at the hospital-
Scott Hammond: Wow
Leonard LaFrance: … when we had the two suspects. Um-
Scott Hammond: Okay
Leonard LaFrance: … so it's, it's really, you know, if someone needs help, they call us, and then, you know, we look at it and we usually assist them, uh, if we can. They assist us as well. So it's a small community. Uh, we all have to, we have to play together 'cause it's a s- it's a small swimming pool.
Scott Hammond: Mm.
Leonard LaFrance: So.
Scott Hammond: Does that go for feds too? Do they… I mean, I imagine the feds don't show up every day in Humboldt, but-
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah. So there, uh, there's a, a couple agents down in, in, down in Fortuna. They do, uh, meet with, not every week, but they meet with us, uh, with our criminal investigations unit.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, probably every couple weeks they meet with them, and there's, there's some overlapping cases they work on, so we do see them.
Scott Hammond: Gotcha. So how do, um, how do we help? How does, how does Joe Citizen, Josephine Citizen jump in and, I don't know, help the team?
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah, I think looking at a bigger picture from, uh, you know, what's, what's causing the issues we have in, in, in Eureka, um, obviously we have a high cri- property crime rate. I, I don't know, I haven't looked at the data recently, um, but we are-
Scott Hammond: Mm
Leonard LaFrance: … we are fairly high. Uh, but we have to look at, you know, kids. We have to look at how do we s- how do we go way upstream with-
Scott Hammond: Kids
Leonard LaFrance: … the youth nowadays? How do we reduce that trauma to the kids? Uh, how do we help, um, develop programs that kids can have a positive experience-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … even if they have a, you know, at home they have a rough life?
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, but they show with ACES, if you have one supportive adult in your life, the chance of you having positive outcomes is, is greatly heightened.
Scott Hammond: Mm.
Leonard LaFrance: And so, you know, we want that involvement from our, from our adults, uh, in our community, you know, working with kids-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … being a good example of what an adult looks like. Um-
Scott Hammond: Big Brothers, Big Sisters.
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah. For an example, I'm with, uh, Humboldt IPA, uh, which is not a beer. Um-
Scott Hammond: Right, right.
Leonard LaFrance: It's a, uh… So I, I'm actually part of the Boys to Men mentoring group. I think it, it's called Men Empowerment now. But it's a, it's a group for… We have, uh, mentors come into different schools across Humboldt County. I've been with them since the beginning, um-
Scott Hammond: Mm
Leonard LaFrance: … and we just talk to, you know, kids that, some kids have, you know, some have, you know, some troubles, some things going on, but we just have conversations. So I go in there for different schools, usually once a month.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, I've been to juvenile hall, uh, very different places, but have very honest conversations with kids.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: And I just pretty much say, "Hey, this is who I am." And I usually wear a suit or not my uniform.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: And I'm like, "You know, what do you think I do?" And so I challenge them.
Scott Hammond: Mm.
Leonard LaFrance: And they, you know, start throwing things at me, you know, it's like, uh, okay, you know, okay, I'm a cop. Okay, what, but what do I do as a cop? And then of course they give me, you know, you know, you, the standard response, you know, you shoot people, you know, blah, blah, blah.
Scott Hammond: 20 questions.
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, 20 questions, you know, but then of course, you know, once I say-
Scott Hammond: I like it
Leonard LaFrance: … you know, what I do actually is I work with- Well, one, now I go to meetings, but-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … you know, in the past, you know, I worked with the homeless people and people in crisis.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: And then of course that opens a whole different dialogue, and they can, they can just shotgun questions at me, I don't care. I'll, I'll pretty much answer any question I can for them. But you're building that rapport with the kids, um-
Scott Hammond: That's cool
Leonard LaFrance: … you're having honest conversations, and you're showing, you're humanizing, um, also officers on the same time.
Scott Hammond: So what I'm hearing you say is connection with people, relationship connection, maybe deep connection, you know, for that kid you're gonna mentor or, or, uh, you know… There, there's a homeless guy b- in our alley who, um, uh, he- he's really respectful. I really like the guy, and I, I always make it a point to say hi and, you know, keep, keep an eye on my place for me, you know? And he's, you know, he's a person-
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah
Scott Hammond: … it turns out. Yeah.
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah. Con- I mean, connection's key in anything. Um, and I… It's funny 'cause I'm actually, I'm actually a pretty strong introvert.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: I guess I'm a moderate introvert.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, so for the most part I, you know, I, when I go home I, you know, "Leave me alone, get off my lawn."
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, but then I tap into my extroversion at work.
Scott Hammond: Right.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, but I still know that human connection is essential for all that we do. Um, but still even with human connection we have, you know, we build those rapport, but we also hold people accountable for their bi- you know, we have to have that balance.
Scott Hammond: That's right.
Leonard LaFrance: And so a part of mentoring, you know, is, you know, yeah, you know, is have that connection, but there's rules in life, and there's accountability.
Scott Hammond: That's good.
Leonard LaFrance: And to, you know, to grow up to be a man in society, um, you have to, you know, you have to have accountability.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Leonard LaFrance: You have to, you know, you ra- if you raise a family, take care of your family. Um-
Scott Hammond: That's right
Leonard LaFrance: … if you're an adult you get employed. You, you know, you work, you try to improve your life, you try to improve the lives of others.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: You har- don't harm anybody else. And those simple things that-
Scott Hammond: That's good
Leonard LaFrance: … that we've been blessed to learn, um, but many kids that we meet nowadays, that's just, it's, it's not-
Scott Hammond: No concept
Leonard LaFrance: … common to them. Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Yeah. Accountability to what?
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: What's, what does that mean? Um, no, I like that. I like that 'cause that's, that is kinda the counterbalance to c- connection and community is accountability, 'cause we, we're gonna play in the sandbox, we're gonna do it right. We're gonna, you know, make mistakes and c- and come back and correct those and be accountable and move forward and grow, and maybe that's what community's about. Um, so what motivates, what motivates you, uh, Leonard, in terms of what you do day to day? What, what do you, how do you keep going? What's your secret? What's your mojo? What's your secret sauce?
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, that's a good question. Uh, you know, I'm, I'm always have been a very, very driven, intense person, uh, especially in, in adulthood. Uh, when I s- you know, when I have a mission, um, like when I was, you know, any- anything I'm do- uh, you know, at work or, especially in work, um, it's that self-pride I have to do the job right.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: And then, you know, what is history gonna say about me when I'm d- when I'm laid on?
Scott Hammond: Wow. Legacy.
Leonard LaFrance: I think that's important, you know. It's, you know, not that I'm saying I'm gonna save the world, 'cause I'm not. Um-
Scott Hammond: Yeah
Leonard LaFrance: … you know, but if you save one kid or one adult-
Scott Hammond: You did your job
Leonard LaFrance: … then that's, d- you did your job. But, you know, I think it's that self-pride that drives me to go forward-
Scott Hammond: Yeah
Leonard LaFrance: … to, to be the best I can. I think as you look at life also, you know, we, we always move up and then we plateau-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … and we move up, we plateau. And I've seen the plateaus in my life, um-
Scott Hammond: Yeah
Leonard LaFrance: … and I've been there. I would say I'm quasi plateauing right now after a really couple years of really bolstering myself, um, up.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, but it's always that s- that self growth and self-development that, you know, I wanna be, you know, when I leave, when I leave what, you know, what are people gonna say-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … you know, that I, you know, I, or did I just stay where I was-
Scott Hammond: Right
Leonard LaFrance: … or did I keep developing myself as I went along?
Scott Hammond: What's on the tombstone? What does it say?
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah, g- uh, yeah, I'm not sure what it'd say, but, uh- … yeah. Hopefully it's good, not bad, so.
Scott Hammond: Right. Right. So, uh, top three opportunities that you would say, uh-I've asked how can we help as a citizenry, but what do you see as, for Humboldt, uh, uh, from your perspective, how… Y- you've said personal connection. You know, just get to know people and, and, and love on them, hold them accountable, have a relationship. But also, um, what, what could we do or what do you see the three opportunities in, in… I don't know if they're economic or in law enforcement or what. You know, I'll, I'll leave the, the answer to you. What do you, what do you th- what do you see that we have coming up that looks good?
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah, when I look at Eureka, there's a lot of opportunity in, in Eureka. Eureka has a ton of potential, and I've said that. You know, we have, we have our issues, um, the data shows that. However, we have a ton of potential.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: And so I think for us to reach potential, we have to… A big thing is economy. We have to boost our economy.
Scott Hammond: Yep.
Leonard LaFrance: We need to bring in businesses, uh, bring in tax bases.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Leonard LaFrance: I mean, imagine if we lost Costco.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Leonard LaFrance: Right? That's-
Scott Hammond: It'd be weird
Leonard LaFrance: … that'd be really weird. Where would, you know, where would you shop at? And that's a huge tax base.
Scott Hammond: What if we got Home Depot?
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Whole, whole other story.
Leonard LaFrance: Whole, whole, whole nother story, right? Um, but we have to boost- bolster our economy.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, and then I think that's a big piece of that, and I think that correlates also to the next thing, is we look at our policing force. Right now we'll be down-
Scott Hammond: Mm
Leonard LaFrance: … I think in a couple weeks we'll be down 10 officers. So we have 48 sworn total.
Scott Hammond: Whoa.
Leonard LaFrance: And we'll be down to 38. And our staffing is based on a population of 30,000, but the daytime- … we're 60,000.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Leonard LaFrance: And so, um, our officers here, and again, I'm a guy who goes to meetings. Like, I don't… I, I do nothing flashy. I do police work occasionally.
Scott Hammond: Mm.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, but our patrol guys on the street are really the gu- really the guys and gals that are busting their rear every day. Uh, they're pushing forward. They run call to call to call nonstop, sometimes for, uh, 12 and a half hour shifts.
Scott Hammond: That's long. Okay.
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, many times they don't get breaks. Many times they don't eat lunch.
Scott Hammond: Mm.
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, but they're constantly going. And so I think for us, you know, if we can develop, um, our youth, uh, you know, into the next generation of police officers-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … that hey, policing is actually, it's a, it's a, it's a, uh, it's, it's a very good profession.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, it's a, it's a noble profession. Um, there obviously are standards. We have to always, always improve and progress our profession.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, but this is what we need from our, you know, from our community coming up, and have our, those local folks that are actually gonna be part of the department to actually make the community better.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, and that's, I think the, the opportunity we have is if we can keep our kids local. Um, you know, we have an academy here.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Send them to the academy. We have Cal Poly. We have CR. You know, get an education while you're going to the academy or get an education-
Scott Hammond: Yeah
Leonard LaFrance: … if you wanna go straight to empl- work after high school, awesome.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: And go to the academy at 21, awesome. And then, you know, when you're, uh, when you're, you know, as an officer you wanna go and finish your bachelor's or master's or whatever you wanna do, that's great, too.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, but I think we have a huge opportunity to keep our, our, our local kids and actually develop them into law enforcement. I think that's a major need we ha- we have right now. Major need.
Scott Hammond: So all departments are short, generally speaking?
Leonard LaFrance: I think everyone except for Fortuna.
Scott Hammond: Mm.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, Fortuna does a very good job about, uh, just-
Scott Hammond: Must be a good department to work for.
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, I think it's a very supportive community-
Scott Hammond: Mm
Leonard LaFrance: … for law enforcement. Um, it's different than… It's definitely a much more conservative community.
Scott Hammond: Sure.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, so I think the support for law enforcement's probably a little more significant than other-
Scott Hammond: Mm
Leonard LaFrance: … other areas. We definitely have support in Eureka, um-
Scott Hammond: Sure
Leonard LaFrance: … but I think it's, it's a smaller community-
Scott Hammond: Mm
Leonard LaFrance: … so they have less trouble, uh, getting officers. They're not, definitely not as busy as we are.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, but it's just the challenge is, you know, keeping officers here. So example, if we boost the economy, it's likely we'll… Obviously you'll p- you'll push your tax base-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … and then you'll be able to pay officers. Obviously, uh, you'll actually be able to raise their wages, which we're still definitely, compared to most of the, of the state, are underpaid.
Scott Hammond: Okay.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, for, especially for the work they do. And you can probably even hire more staff, and then also fill the vacancies and specialty roles, like our POP team-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … which actually goes out and proactively addresses drug houses and-
Scott Hammond: Nice
Leonard LaFrance: … those kind of things, 'cause right now we're, we're, we're v- we don't have that team right now because we don't have the staffing for it.
Scott Hammond: Let's talk about your dispatch team for a second.
Leonard LaFrance: Sure.
Scott Hammond: Um, I imagine you want to shout out to them 'cause they're usually awesome, right? People that I've met have been really… I mean, even worked with have been really, really amazing.
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah, the, the org-
Scott Hammond: They're kind of part of the, the football team.
Leonard LaFrance: Oh, they def- yeah, definitely are, yeah. 'Cause act- they're actually st- uh, lo- uh, located in our building. Um, but yeah, they, they're multitasking extraordinaire.
Scott Hammond: Mm.
Leonard LaFrance: They can multitask nonstop. Uh, and they also work 12-hour shifts.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, sitting down for 12 hours, which is a long time. Um-
Scott Hammond: It's-
Leonard LaFrance: … phone's constantly going off. Uh, not only is the-
Scott Hammond: Mm
Leonard LaFrance: … the regular c- the regular non-emergency line, plus the 911 line, plus the radio's going on, plus they're running people, plus they're inputting data. Um, it's, it's just, it's craziness for-
Scott Hammond: Wow
Leonard LaFrance: … 12 hours. Uh, they get… You know, nights, you know, graveyards will probably get, get an occasional, you know, it might slow down, uh, knock on wood.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, but I mean- … in, in a matter of seconds it could, you know, all chaos can ensue, and, and they're doing everything they can. There's only two of them also-
Scott Hammond: Wow
Leonard LaFrance: … uh, in that, in that dispatch center. And so they, they do a lot of amazing things.
Scott Hammond: Are they the core of the 911 calls?
Leonard LaFrance: Uh, in Eureka, yeah.
Scott Hammond: Okay.
Leonard LaFrance: So any kind of 911 would come, um, would usually, if you're in Eureka, will go directly to our, our center.
Scott Hammond: Hmm. Yeah. The, uh, the gals that I, that, well, guys too, that I've talked to have been amazing. So, uh, what can we do? We can, we can support the economy. We can raise up some amazing kids and be supportive of kids. And what was the other thing you said?
Leonard LaFrance: Mentorship.
Scott Hammond: Mentorship. And then, um, and then go one to one on pe- with people and engage people and be… I guess somebody told me, "Hey, just be a friend."
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah. I mean, I think the, uh… You know, it, I think once you know people it breaks down bar- you know, barriers. You look at somebody, obviously we, you know, we're, we're, we're naturally judging people regardless of whe- whether we recognize it or not.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, but just having those connections, you know, you know, it's just amazing how I'll, you know, walk down the street and people are amazed, like, the homeless will talk to me because, you know, they're like, "Well, why would the homeless want to proactively talk to the cops?"
Scott Hammond: Right.
Leonard LaFrance: Well, it's 'cause I know them, and we're, you know, we have a relationship. We have a friendship.
Scott Hammond: Sure.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, obviously, you know, I'm an officer, so you know, there's a expectation that they have to follow the rules. Um, you know, we've seen even, you know, regular citizens, whatever reg- whatever regular and normal is, I don't, I don't know what that is, but-
Scott Hammond: Right. Typical
Leonard LaFrance: … you know-
Scott Hammond: Typical
Leonard LaFrance: … people, you know, people yelling at us, you know, for whatever-
Scott Hammond: Mm
Leonard LaFrance: … are just being nasty to an officer, and we'll have homeless people come up and say, "Hey, time out. You need to back off-
Scott Hammond: Yeah
Leonard LaFrance: … because it's, it's-
Scott Hammond: It's crazy
Leonard LaFrance: … which is very bizarre, right? 'Cause you think it'd be-
Scott Hammond: Perfect
Leonard LaFrance: … other way around. Um, but it's not, so it's an interesting dynamic.
Scott Hammond: I love it. No, it's true. So I, um-I have a story about that. It was a bunch of us were on the Arcata Plaza singing some praise songs. This is 30 years ago. And, uh, a homeless guy started to come up and yell at all the, these youth that were singing. And the other homeless guy came up to our defense and said, "Get out of here. This is not y- who- y- y- this isn't your plaza. Would you please, you know, stand down and go, go sit?" And the guy did, so. And so it should be. And I imagine a homeless population could be a really big resource for a bad, a bad apple that shows up in some fashion, and, "Hey, yeah, he's right there. He's sitting over by… right there."
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah, we've solved a lot of crimes, um, in major crimes, just the fact that we, we have a major incident in Old Town.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: And usually just the c- the people we know, uh, or the connections we have, people say, "Hey, you may wanna talk to so and so," or, "Hey-"
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: "… uh, here's the name."
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: And, uh, just because those, the folks that we… I mean, we're, we're there protecting our homeless p- our homeless community also.
Scott Hammond: Mm.
Leonard LaFrance: And they know that we care about them. We know that we see value in them.
Scott Hammond: Sure.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, even though sometimes their behavior's unacceptable, and we address it. Um, but that relationship allows, allows them to give us information because they wanna stay safe as well.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: And so it's a very interesting dynamic, which some people don't, don't believe it until they actually come out with the team and say, "Wow, this is, this is really interesting-"
Scott Hammond: Yeah
Leonard LaFrance: … "how this, how this works."
Scott Hammond: No. So, so everybody's got a story and on a journey. That's what we say at our house. So, um, I'm gonna part with two questions for you. Should've started with these. These… So my father-in-law, Tom, was a marathon runner and a really nice guy and from LA, and he ha- he had two questions for people: "Who are you?" and "What do you want?" So we'll start with the, the who are you. Uh, Leonard, besides the, the data of who you are, who, who are you?
Leonard LaFrance: That's a, that's a that's a good question. Uh, you know, when I, I actually did a, a, a, a, a kind of a value system assessment of myself years ago, and one of the things that came up is, uh, I'm a person of integrity. Um, I am who I am, and pretty much what you see is what you get.
Scott Hammond: Nice.
Leonard LaFrance: However, having integrity also, uh, forces you to continue developing yourself.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: And so that's what I always start with. Um, but, uh, you know, besides being, you know, an, uh, working as a, a police commander or police officer, you know, I'm also, uh, you know, I'm a, I'm a parent of two, two young children, nine- and seven-year-olds. Um-
Scott Hammond: Wow
Leonard LaFrance: … I'm a husband.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, which, you know, marriages in law enforcement are, are, can be definitely difficult. Uh-
Scott Hammond: Yeah. Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … you know, I'm blessed to have a, a, a spouse that, um, handles… She's my personal assistant. That's what she calls herself.
Scott Hammond: Nice.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, yeah.
Scott Hammond: She calls you "Le France"?
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah, she does, yeah. Um- … it's just, yeah, just-
Scott Hammond: I can-
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah
Scott Hammond: … imagine Jodi going, "Hey, Hammond."
Leonard LaFrance: Yep.
Scott Hammond: "Yes, dear. What?"
Leonard LaFrance: Yep, happened. Yep.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Leonard LaFrance: It's, uh, interesting.
Scott Hammond: Cool. Cool.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, but yeah, you know, I, I, I'm a, a… You know, that's, that's my family aspect, but I'm a huge, uh, board game player.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Leonard LaFrance: I, uh, I'm big into sports simulation board games based on all data. Um, I love data. I love-
Scott Hammond: Sports simulation board games, what does that look like? Not-
Leonard LaFrance: It l-
Scott Hammond: … Monopoly.
Leonard LaFrance: No, it looks like, uh, like you have a, you have a game system. Like right now I'm playing a ga- a game called History Maker Baseball by Plaay, P-L-L, P-L-A-A-Y.com.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Or Plaay Games. Um, and it's a, you have a booklet. You have, uh, cards. I, I play a fictional league, and you have-
Scott Hammond: Huh
Leonard LaFrance: … different players. I actually created the league myself and been playing it for three seasons now, and-
Scott Hammond: Wow
Leonard LaFrance: … um, you roll dice. You look at the book.
Scott Hammond: So it's not online. It's not-
Leonard LaFrance: Nope
Scott Hammond: … on a computer.
Leonard LaFrance: Nope. It's all you roll dice, and you keep scorebooks, and-
Scott Hammond: That's cool
Leonard LaFrance: … um, and I love data, so I'm a, I'm a data guy, so I love knowing my batting average of my player is, you know-
Scott Hammond: Right
Leonard LaFrance: … you know, 332 or, you know, and then, uh, it's just kinda my own little realm. I, I, I'm a, I'm a s-
Scott Hammond: You said you like documentaries. So you like Ken Burns baseball?
Leonard LaFrance: I do, yep. Although he got it wrong.
Scott Hammond: Classic. Did he?
Leonard LaFrance: He got it w- Ty, he got it wrong about Ty Cobb apparently, so, uh-
Scott Hammond: That Ty Cl- Cobb was not a monster?
Leonard LaFrance: He was not a monster, no. Apparently, he was not according to the most, the most recent, uh-
Scott Hammond: Interesting
Leonard LaFrance: … uh-
Scott Hammond: 'Cause he, it always comes out that he's a, he's a real-
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah, apparently he was not, so-
Scott Hammond: … heroic.
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah. But yeah, you know, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a kind of a closet geek, and, um, but-
Scott Hammond: That's cool. Yeah, yeah
Leonard LaFrance: … for the most part, I'm a homebody, and, um, when I'm not at work tr- tapping to my extroversion side, I'm usually at home tapping to my introversion side.
Scott Hammond: Called adapted beh- work behavior.
Leonard LaFrance: It is-
Scott Hammond: Yeah
Leonard LaFrance: … out of, you know, out of necessity.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, y- yeah. That's, that's kind- I think who, that's quasi who I am, I guess.
Scott Hammond: Okay.
Leonard LaFrance: But what you see is what you get.
Scott Hammond: I love it, man. That's, that's, that's solid. Uh, so what, what is it that you want? Uh, you talked about, a little bit about legacy. What, what do you want for, uh… What do you want? What do you want from life? Remember the old, it was an old rock and roll, The Tubes or somebody.
Leonard LaFrance: That's, that's also another deep question. Um, what I want in life. Well, I'd like to, you know, obviously, uh, when I'm done with this career, uh, I can be done at 50, so about six years, I can be, in theory, I can be done. I probably won't be.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Leonard LaFrance: But, uh, you know, what I want after that is to, obviously, to keep, um, moving my family forward, uh, hopefully get, you know, have my, my kids, if they want to, whatever they wanna do with life next, either go to college or, uh, get employed, support that obviously. But if they do-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … wanna go to school, uh, find a way to pay for that as well. Um, I was blessed to, you know, end up with my master's degree la- a couple years ago.
Scott Hammond: Nice. Where?
Leonard LaFrance: Um, uh, I did it online through, uh, Union Institute University, um, which is a-
Scott Hammond: What's, what's your degree in?
Leonard LaFrance: Um, uh, organizational leadership.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah. So, you know, I wanna support the education. I think it's important. It's not everything.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Not everyone needs a master's degree. Um-
Scott Hammond: Sure
Leonard LaFrance: … but for me, you know, that's what I wanna do, and it made me feel, feel better and helps me to work, and it's awesome, um, for me, though. Um-
Scott Hammond: You said integrity's always growing.
Leonard LaFrance: It is always growing, yeah.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Leonard LaFrance: Yep. You know, and, uh, after I, uh, you know, after retirement, I'd like to, you know, either teach at a university, um, or, uh, consult on the side, which I do some now. Uh-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … example with, like, the regional center.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, so, you know, consult about, you know, crisis intervention, um, working with people with disabilities, um, mental health-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Leonard LaFrance: … uh, you know, anything in that, that realm. Uh, policing the homeless. How do we police the homeless?
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Leonard LaFrance: Um, so any kinda consulting work around that and also teaching in that realm as well, so.
Scott Hammond: I love it. That's awesome. Um, any questions for me?
Leonard LaFrance: I don't think so, no.
Scott Hammond: Wait. Wait, you can be the interviewer.
Leonard LaFrance: I know.
Scott Hammond: Um, no, I really appreciate having you. Um, a- and I re- I share your heart for, um, special needs populations 'cause they're, they're everywhere. And, uh, my oldest son, Jacob, who's a great guy and programmer, he goes, "Hey, Dad," nine kids plus me, I'm 10. He goes, "I think we're all special needs, don't you?" And I go, "Y- yeah, Jacob, I'm pretty sure we are."
Leonard LaFrance: And that's okay.
Scott Hammond: So, so, and that's okay. Anyway, hey, uh, appreciate having you, and, uh, uh, come back sometime, and, uh, uh, want, we wanna support what you guys are doing all the time at EPD, but also with regard to regional center and those, that kind of program, so appreciate you.
Leonard LaFrance: Yeah. Thanks so much.
Scott Hammond: All right. Have a great day.