#70. Yana Valachovic’s Journey: Community Collaboration, Stewardship & Building Resilience

Scott Hammond: Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, friends and neighbors, uh, Scott Hammond with 100% Humboldt podcast with my new best friend, Yana

Scott Hammond: Valachovic.

Yana Valachovic: Good day to you, Mr-

Scott Hammond: I did good.

Yana Valachovic: You did great.

Scott Hammond: I said it.

Yana Valachovic: Mr. Hammond.

Scott Hammond: Hi, Yana. How are you?

Yana Valachovic: I'm great.

Scott Hammond: It's great to have you.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Tell us what you do, who you are, what your job is, your duties, and what you're, what you're all about.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah. It's great. It's always a little complicated to explain what I do, but-

Scott Hammond: Take your time. We have, like, 10 hours.

Yana Valachovic: Perfect. Perfect. Born and raised here.

Scott Hammond: Oh, wow. You're local.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah, and-

Scott Hammond: Where'd you go to school?

Yana Valachovic: Uh, what level of schooling?

Scott Hammond: Uh, high school.

Yana Valachovic: I went to South Fork High School.

Scott Hammond: Cool. Oh, you're a SoHum.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah, I'm SoHum.

Scott Hammond: That's right.

Yana Valachovic: Yep. And, um, the greatest school I could've gone to was at Humboldt, but I didn't know what I wanted to study, and-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … so I left and went to Washington State.

Scott Hammond: Cool.

Yana Valachovic: A good 12-hour drive away.

Scott Hammond: Bellingham?

Yana Valachovic: Uh, no, I went to Olympia.

Scott Hammond: Olympia.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Where's Washington State? Is it-

Yana Valachovic: No, I went to the, the state of Washington, and I-

Scott Hammond: The state of Washington. Oh

Yana Valachovic: … and I went to a college in Olympia called The Evergreen State College-

Scott Hammond: Oh, cool

Yana Valachovic: … which was a little edgy but interesting, and ended up-

Scott Hammond: Okay

Yana Valachovic: … being a great fit for what I ended up doing, not knowing that, of course.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Scott Hammond: Do we ever?

Yana Valachovic: Do- no, we never know. You know, learned that you go to college to learn, and you don't have to go to college to be a thing.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Yana Valachovic: You really just need to be an, become an inquisitive person with some decent skill.

Scott Hammond: That's a really g- a hard stop on that one. That's so smart to go, "Hey, I'm, I'm coming with a flexible brain."

Yana Valachovic: Well, y- I- you didn't know it at the time, right?

Scott Hammond: No. You want- I was an ocean major, by golly. And then I was a wildlife major. Then I found out I couldn't… I d- I'm just dumb. I d- I couldn't do calculus or-

Yana Valachovic: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … physics and all the science.

Yana Valachovic: That's hard, that's hard stuff.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Liberal arts, way to go.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So what, what'd you study then?

Yana Valachovic: I studied all science, actually.

Scott Hammond: Oh.

Yana Valachovic: Uh, all natural science. Uh, geology, um, plant ecology, a little bit of birds, we call that

Yana Valachovic: ornithology.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: Um, and I went to this school that was taught in teams, so we-

Scott Hammond: Oh, that's cool.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah. So we had 16 units at a time that were coordinated in coordinated study, meaning that, like, four faculty would coordinate all of your study for a year.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Yana Valachovic: Which the coolest part about all of that is if you wanted to go on a multi-day field trip, no problem, because you weren't having to skip other classes 'cause everything was organized.

Scott Hammond: That's cool.

Yana Valachovic: So we did a lot of field courses and field

Yana Valachovic: travel, and-

Scott Hammond: So you had to decide as a team what you wanted to do and then create it and propose

Scott Hammond: it?

Yana Valachovic: Well, no, not necessarily. I mean-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … it just that you could take a group of students for multiple days, and they weren't missing their other classes-

Scott Hammond: Beautiful

Yana Valachovic: … 'cause everything was all organized in that way.

Scott Hammond: That's really cool.

Yana Valachovic: And the part that was so useful for me, which I didn't realize, is just this whole idea of team and project-based work, and that rarely do you work alone in-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … at least in my professional world, and you're always in collaboration-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Yeah

Yana Valachovic: … in partnership with a whole bunch of different folks.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: And so that's a, a true reflection of what my field has been, and so it's, uh, it was a good fit for me. I then went from there to Oregon State University and got a master's degree

Yana Valachovic: in-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Yana Valachovic: … forest ecology.

Scott Hammond: And I know that's Corvallis.

Yana Valachovic: That is in Corvallis.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: Yes, the Beavers.

Scott Hammond: So what was your undergrad in?

Yana Valachovic: Um, it j- it's a, it's a general kind of forest ecology-

Scott Hammond: Okay

Yana Valachovic: … related degree.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And I thought I'd become kind of a, a, a nerdy field scientist and maybe work for the Forest Services Redwood Science Lab in Arcata-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … and, you know, answer key questions about how ecosystems work-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … and forests work.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And I ended up, uh, coming back here with someone I grew up with here.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And we tried to figure out how to make it work.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And at that time, which was, um, uh, in the late '90s, I don't know, we didn't think we'd find real jobs.

Yana Valachovic: Like that-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Yana Valachovic: … that was not what-

Scott Hammond: Turns out you did.

Yana Valachovic: I know. And within a year, I landed a job that I've now had almost 25

Yana Valachovic: years.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Yana Valachovic: And

Scott Hammond: Look at you go.

Yana Valachovic: I know. Look at that.

Scott Hammond: 25 years.

Yana Valachovic: I know. Hard to believe. So I-

Scott Hammond: In Humboldt?

Yana Valachovic: In Humboldt, yeah. So I work for, um, an interesting partnership between the University of California-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … and the County of Humboldt and the County of Del Norte.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And, uh, in my present position, I'm the director of the program for both of those counties. And underneath us are a focus in agriculture, a focus in natural resources, and a focus in community-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … between health nutrition and, uh, youth development. And so we have some pretty well-known programs that are more well-known than we are, but 4H is one of our cornerstone programs.

Scott Hammond: Love it.

Yana Valachovic: And then we also have, um… A lot of what we do is, is in partnership and, and, in working with volunteers. So we have, uh, other programs such as the Master Gardener program, and-

Scott Hammond: Heard of it.

Yana Valachovic: Yep.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And we have Master Food Preservers, and, uh, tangentially, we have a Master Naturalist program.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Yana Valachovic: So there is this h- whole network of people that, uh, come and work and study with us, and then go out and share what they've learned and do great things in the community.

Scott Hammond: Far out. Are you– So you're south on, uh, Humboldt Hill?

Yana Valachovic: Yep, I'm in Humboldt Hill.

Scott Hammond: Let me show you on the map.

Yana Valachovic: Oh.

Scott Hammond: Humboldt Hill's right over there-

Scott Hammond: … by Humboldt Bay.

Yana Valachovic: Yes.

Scott Hammond: And, um, over kind of by where the radio station is over that way.

Yana Valachovic: Correct. I'm right next door.

Scott Hammond: KKRED. Whatever.

Yana Valachovic: Uh, yes.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: And, uh, as-

Scott Hammond: Channel 3

Yana Valachovic: … as Brian Papstein always likes to say on KINS, I'm from Spruce

Yana Valachovic: Point.

Scott Hammond: Spruce Point. Thank you, Brian.

Yana Valachovic: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Hey, shout out to Brian.

Yana Valachovic: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: The only guest I've had on twice.

Yana Valachovic: Right.

Scott Hammond: Look at you go, Brian.

Yana Valachovic: Look at you. And I'm, I, I spend a, a morning a month with Brian.

Scott Hammond: I bet you do.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah. I'm one of his regular-

Scott Hammond: A 30-minute, uh, journey to wherever-

Yana Valachovic: Wherever we're gonna go. It'll always be good, and we'll laugh the whole way.

Scott Hammond: We, we– Yeah. Oh, he's great. I, I really like Brian. He's– He and I went to Humboldt together.

Yana Valachovic: Oh, did you?

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: Okay. Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Then he went back east to Creighton or Creigh- how do you say it, Creighton or Creighton, uh, Nebraska? You know, just go back there and finished

Yana Valachovic: Okay. Right

Scott Hammond: Um, anyway, shout out to Brian. So that's a pretty complex– So are you over the entire UC extension? Are you over-

Yana Valachovic: Yeah, so-

Scott Hammond: Div-

Yana Valachovic: No. So we, we draw the short straw and, and have a, a largely volunteer assignment to be the administrator plus our

Yana Valachovic: other technical job.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And so I've been doing that since 2009.

Scott Hammond: I think it's cool that you're a local gal-

Yana Valachovic: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: …and did the-

Yana Valachovic: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: …and you're the head honcho, and it makes sense 'cause you know the,

Scott Hammond: the-

Yana Valachovic: Well, I mean, extension-

Scott Hammond: …the culture

Yana Valachovic: …is all about being place-based and-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: …knowing your people and-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: …knowing what they care about and understanding and anticipating what challenges they're facing, and we're really here to bring science and, but bring energy and, and thought to vaccine problems and try and find solutions to those, which sounds super vague and ambiguous. Like, what the heck does that really mean?

Scott Hammond: What does, what does that really-

Yana Valachovic: Really

Scott Hammond: …what does that really mean?

Yana Valachovic: Really.

Scott Hammond: Don't we all?

Yana Valachovic: You know, why are we here? Um, we're, you know, we're trained problem solvers-

Scott Hammond: Uh-huh

Yana Valachovic: …and, you know, we can bring science to the table, we can bring facilitation skills to the table.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: We can bring, you know, educational opportunities to help do workforce development, to stage an important conversation to work through an

Yana Valachovic: issue.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: Um, it's, it- it's, uh, every day is very different.

Scott Hammond: So na- name some, some of the principal ones that maybe you've came to the, uh,

Scott Hammond: solved and-

Yana Valachovic: Oh, yeah, solved

Scott Hammond: …worked on or with.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah, there's a lot of things. So I started my term really working in forest health and trying to work on the introduction of an invasive plant pathogen known as, uh, um, or the disease is known as sudden oak death.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And it's a disease that escaped our, um, plant trade and, you know, we go to the nursery and we buy beautiful plants, plant in the backyard, and it got into the wildland that way.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: Uh, and so what I learned through that process is that there isn't really a formal system to protect and safeguard our natural resources from hitchhikers.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And they can get it, get in. And so I spent the first decade of time working on trying to find ways to manage that invasive plant pathogen when it comes in-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: …to our communities and try and figure out how to mitigate its impacts and-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Yana Valachovic: …prevent additional spread and-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Yana Valachovic: …it brought me into this whole world of international quarantines and plant trades and science and-

Scott Hammond: Whoa

Yana Valachovic: …it was– it's been an amazing journey. I've met fantastic people and, you know, we all, we all love our forests, we all love our natural resources-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: …and we all don't wanna see them, you know, change in some deleterious way, so-

Scott Hammond: Sure

Yana Valachovic: …it, it was a unifier in that way and-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: …um, it has resulted in a lot of changes in nursery practices

Yana Valachovic: and-

Scott Hammond: Huh

Yana Valachovic: …things you might not know behind the scenes, but if you go to the nursery sometimes, all the plants aren't on the ground anymore. They're lifted up-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Yana Valachovic: …off the-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: …uh, off the surface because to prevent splash in case the disease or other pathogens-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Yana Valachovic: …are in the soil, it prevents splash up into the pots and-

Scott Hammond: Miller Farms has all their plants up.

Yana Valachovic: Right.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: And then we separate plants that are hosts between non-hosts. So-

Scott Hammond: Oh

Yana Valachovic: …change the arrangement of how they're placed, change watering schedules and

Yana Valachovic: regimes and-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Yana Valachovic: …a number of things that, um, such as cleaning pots, um, as an example. You, you know, you buy a plant in a pot, what do you do with it? Well, hopefully recycle it or, you know, get to use it again.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: But inside the pot has, you know, residue from wherever it was there before. And, you know, I– prior to working in this field of pathology, I'd never really thought about those-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Yana Valachovic: …as being vectors for-

Scott Hammond: What's the stuff in there?

Yana Valachovic: Yeah. What's the stuff in there? So now we clean pots.

Scott Hammond: Hmm. That makes sense.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I like that.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So you have a, like, no day is the same.

Yana Valachovic: No day is the same. And then, uh, early on, I ended up getting pulled into Sacramento to try and figure out ways that we could relieve some of the regulations and the, like, the, the stuff that just didn't make sense, it made it hard to be a good steward of your forest land.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: Uh, we have a really thick book that is the California Forest Practice Act and then the forest practice rules associated with it. It's in size eight font. It's literally, like, this thick.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Yana Valachovic: And, you know, it's, it, it was, it's a collection of good ideas that c, you know, aggregate out together to a lot of agony

Yana Valachovic: and, um,

Scott Hammond: Aggregate to agony.

Yana Valachovic: Y-

Scott Hammond: Sounds like a book.

Yana Valachovic: I know, totally. Well, the idea, I mean, it– in forest management, you're sort of assumed to be up to no good, and you have to prove your innocence-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Yana Valachovic: …um, more so than any other field. So you write this very complicated harvest plan that says all the great things you're gonna do and all the things you're going to avoid-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: …uh, just to, you know, the ticket to play essentially. And it– so it's expensive, and it costs a lot of money. You cut a lot of trees just to pay for that plan as opposed to the stewardship that you might have, want to have.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Yana Valachovic: So I ended up, uh, in Sacramento early on trying to think about ways that we could streamline that, ways that we could improve the process, and what that tangibly worked out to be was, um, uh, really de- developing more of a pre-consultation process. So before you write the harvest plan, before you really commit your consulting forester to put that time and energy in, that you pre-consult with the agencies, and the, and you talk about the issues in front of the, in front, and so that there's m- less surprises 'cause it's the surprises that cost money.

Scott Hammond: Imagine that, having an agenda first.

Yana Valachovic: And it, I mean, it's worked to some degree, and then we, and to some degree it hasn't. And then we spent a lot of time bringing out mid-level agency staff to understand the perspectives of the landowners-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Yana Valachovic: …and conversely have the landowners understand the perspectives of those-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: …that are there to safeguard the resources and kind of-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Yana Valachovic: …when we use certain words, what do they mean to each other?

Yana Valachovic: And-

Scott Hammond: Right

Yana Valachovic: …try and understand if, you know, that tree looks like it needs to be, uh, set aside for some protectionary reason. Maybe that tree has ten times more economic value than the one adjacent to it that has the same ecological value.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And so being able to swap trees and understand the goals of

Yana Valachovic: each.

Scott Hammond: Love it. So North Coast Land Trust-

Yana Valachovic: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: …do you work with those guys and-

Yana Valachovic: Uh-huh

Scott Hammond: So they're part of, they're part of this landscape, if you'll-

Yana Valachovic: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … forgive the pun.

Yana Valachovic: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. They seem to be amazing, the, the stuff they're doing.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah. Yeah. I was, I was there at the beginning when they started coming together.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Yana Valachovic: It's in the 25 years now.

Scott Hammond: So these are ranchers and landowners that want to keep it

Scott Hammond: ecologically cool, and so they bequeath it to the tru- Do I have kind of the early, the easy math on that?

Yana Valachovic: On the easy math, uh, well, I, it… I don't represent the land trust, so let me just-

Scott Hammond: Sure

Yana Valachovic: … make that clear.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: Uh, the conservation movement has, has taken a lot of different

Yana Valachovic: forms, but-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … in, um, the, the way that it evolved into the early 2000s was this idea that maybe you might sell or donate your development rights in some way, um, for financial value or for tax relief-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Yana Valachovic: … depending on where you were at and what was important to you, and that would take away the development pressure. Um, in exchange, you know, it would, uh, allow that land to, you know, be,

Yana Valachovic: um, unable to subdivide or, you know, maybe it gets rid of your mining rights or, you know, some, some element of

Yana Valachovic: value-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … that, um, you could exchange. And, and so, you know, materially nothing changes for you as the landowner except for you maybe get some compensation

Yana Valachovic: for that-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … and the, the public trust resources are, are, we hope, are better stewarded as a result of that.

Scott Hammond: That makes sense.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I like that. So the UC extension, are there other extensions like in Shasta County, LA County-

Yana Valachovic: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … all over the state?

Yana Valachovic: So our program came about in the United States in 1913, and Humboldt was the test case.

Scott Hammond: Go figure.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Yana Valachovic: I know. Isn't that cool?

Scott Hammond: Why?

Yana Valachovic: You know, I, I-

Scott Hammond: We're so, we're so far away.

Yana Valachovic: I know we're so far away. I spent a long time, 'cause I was director in

Yana Valachovic: 2013, so-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Yana Valachovic: … um, I was the first director to have to think about how to celebrate a centennial and what does that mean and-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Yana Valachovic: … I came into that in 2013 with this idea that I was like, "We were just too far away."

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Yana Valachovic: Okay. Was like, "All right, let's just give Humboldt something 'cause we'll never be able to service them," or- You know, it was like the pity model or like, you know-

Scott Hammond: Pity model

Yana Valachovic: … uh,

Scott Hammond: Is that a thing?

Yana Valachovic: I don't know.

Scott Hammond: The pity model. I've seen that used a lot.

Yana Valachovic: Or, you know, we talk a lot about being behind the Redwood Curtain, so there's no

Yana Valachovic: way-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … that it, it could have, you know, been a place that we'd wanna service 'cause it's just so far away.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

Yana Valachovic: And what I came to realize is that that was all a bunch of BS, that-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Yana Valachovic: … really, um, I mean, we all have a lot of Humboldt pride, I think,

Yana Valachovic: and-

Scott Hammond: I think so

Yana Valachovic: … um, we are self-reliant and we're-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Yana Valachovic: … independent and we know generally how to work together because of our distance and our isolation, and

Yana Valachovic: so

Yana Valachovic: that, um, collaborative nature, uh, and our innovative nature-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … was true for us in 1913 in a way that I didn't see.

Yana Valachovic: And so we were thought of as a place that was ripe for investment because of that historic character of our

Yana Valachovic: culture.

Scott Hammond: Wow. I wish, I wish I saw more of that. I, I like, I love that, and I think it exists, but it seems like there's so much, um, not in my backyard sorta obstructionist BS that occurs, uh, in the

Scott Hammond: community-

Yana Valachovic: Right

Scott Hammond: … um, for different reasons, like the We Are Up project.

Scott Hammond: I mean-

Yana Valachovic: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … Mary Keen's doing an amazing act, and they, they continue to bend over backwards for people that st- it's starting to get kinda nit- nitpicky out there, in my opinion, but-

Yana Valachovic: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … that's just me. I-

Yana Valachovic: No, I mean, I think, uh, I, I, I appreciate that. I think in my job I get to travel a fair bit across California, and there are many worse places-

Scott Hammond: Okay

Yana Valachovic: … for that.

Scott Hammond: Gets weirder, yeah.

Yana Valachovic: It gets weirder. Uh, it's harder. Um, but I think, you know, one of the questions is where do we have a place for reflexive conversation as a community-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … and how do we enable that civil discord and advancement of, of ideas and, you know, one of those used to be the newspaper.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Yeah. What's-

Yana Valachovic: And newspapers have had a really hard time

Scott Hammond: … what's a newspaper?

Yana Valachovic: Right? Newspapers had a really hard time and-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Yana Valachovic: … we, we're a radio culture, right?

Yana Valachovic: We're-

Scott Hammond: True. Podcast

Yana Valachovic: … we're a podcast culture.

Scott Hammond: Oh, weird.

Yana Valachovic: Well, here we are.

Scott Hammond: Hey, Nick, what's up?

Yana Valachovic: Here we are. We're on a podcast.

Scott Hammond: We're–

Scott Hammond: KHSU.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Sure wanna hear about that in a minute.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: But you know, like, how, how do we collectively think about issues in a way that's safe and a way where we can let down our guard and have a place for openness and understanding?

Scott Hammond: Yeah. So you're not saying loco trolling and bombing people on a loco thread and just, uh, 'cause that's so common anymore, just like people tearing each other to bits.

Yana Valachovic: Well, I mean, 'cause we can be anonymous when we make comments-

Scott Hammond: Sure

Yana Valachovic: … on those, on those threads and-

Scott Hammond: Oh, yeah

Yana Valachovic: … we c- we don't stand up for what we believe, and we don't let our neighbor know how we feel and-

Scott Hammond: It's true

Yana Valachovic: … and so, I, I mean, I think the fabric, the civil fabric breaks down when you don't have those places for dialogue and-

Scott Hammond: Right

Yana Valachovic: … so, I, I mean, I think it's, it's predictable that we would get to a place with more rancor and more, um-

Scott Hammond: Good word.

Scott Hammond: Rancor.

Yana Valachovic: Rancor.

Scott Hammond: I haven't used that word for a little while.

Scott Hammond: That's-

Yana Valachovic: It's a good word, isn't it?

Scott Hammond: I like, I like the 25 cent words. Isn't it cool? No, it, it does, it devolves into rancor and crazy and, and, and attacking.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: It's like, what? You– How dare you attack my anonymous-ness?

Yana Valachovic: Right?

Scott Hammond: My… Who– You don't even know me. You never will.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So it's, it's kinda sad. It's become kind of a thread in this podcast

Scott Hammond: because my, my thinking is that everybody had the say so, they went to the hearings, they went to the, the county, the super- the planning commission, whatever, where they were heard, and they didn't get the result they wanted, and now it doesn't stop, and now I'm not

Scott Hammond: gonna stop.

Yana Valachovic: Right.

Scott Hammond: It's like, at a certain point, does there not need to be some s- we, we did proc- we had, you had due diligence,

Scott Hammond: due process. And so it troubles me that sometimes We said no, and now the answer is hell no, and you gotta l- drop it, and we're moving on from your, your rancor.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Um, and, and it troubles me that no never really registers with some

Scott Hammond: people.

Yana Valachovic: Well, I'm gonna pivot a little bit 'cause I don't know this story as well.

Scott Hammond: Good. Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: But let me… I, I guess since I think a lot about community process and community dialogue-

Scott Hammond: I love it. It's a good topic

Yana Valachovic: … um, I think part of the challenge is how do people get heard?

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Yana Valachovic: And how do, how do we recognize that people are heard? Because often someone will say something, and throw a zinger out, and be angry about something.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: But the real issue's something else, and they use that, uh, vehicle of a argument to, to advance the

Yana Valachovic: real issue.

Scott Hammond: Of not being heard or seen?

Yana Valachovic: Of, of, of whatever is… What- whatever they're trying to communicate-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Yana Valachovic: … is veiled under this other issue.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: And we don't have a way to kind of peel back the onion and

Yana Valachovic: understand-

Scott Hammond: Good word

Yana Valachovic: … what, you know, what is it that's really-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … they're concerned about, and how do we legitimize and respect and hear what their issue is, and then help them channel that

Yana Valachovic: energy to-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … 'cause often it's unrelated to the project at, at hand.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: It's, you know, it's something about how you were treated, how someone, you know, was aggressive on the road with you 10 years ago, and you're never gonna

Yana Valachovic: forget it-

Scott Hammond: Right

Yana Valachovic: … or, you know, there's some-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Yana Valachovic: … uh, wrong that needs to be righted.

Scott Hammond: I wanna make a compliment on the, on that comment. Uh, Pastor Bethany talks about that a lot at Catalyst Church in

Scott Hammond: Arcata-

Yana Valachovic: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … where Joni and I go, and it's the idea of being heard.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And some of us haven't been heard in forever or never, and it's like that, that creates a, a whole cascade effect of other, other problems down the road-

Yana Valachovic: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … perhaps.

Yana Valachovic: And then the way we structure our CEQA process, or California Environmental Quality Act process, which dictates normally how there's some review-

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … doesn't give, uh, the freedom to explore some of those things.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And it's often so scripted that it doesn't, um… The timing gets weird. People don't see how their ideas come in.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And, you know, it's this… Sometimes it's so long. So you have meeting one with the certain community members-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … and then you come back six months later in a redesign process based on what they said, but when you have meeting two, you have a whole different group of people that show up-

Scott Hammond: Oh

Yana Valachovic: … which are now stirred up by how meeting one went. And then, then you have to stop and try and hear what the new comments are, but you've already advanced the process, and so by the time you get to meeting three, which is another six months later, you have these disjunct conversations. People don't see that their ideas have been brought forward.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Yana Valachovic: The thread is lost, and there is

Yana Valachovic: just unhappiness with the process and unhappiness-

Scott Hammond: Right

Yana Valachovic: … with knowing how to contribute meaningfully, and, you know, you're rigid in how this process is structured and-

Scott Hammond: It has to be by law, right?

Yana Valachovic: Right. It has to be, but like you-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Yana Valachovic: … it, the, the, the heart and soul of community learning-

Scott Hammond: Is not happy

Yana Valachovic: … is not there.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: Um, a, a good friend of mine, Jen Rice, who does a lot of facilitation here-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … she once introduced me to this idea of called a design charette.

Scott Hammond: Hmm. A charette.

Yana Valachovic: I know. I don't even-

Scott Hammond: What is a charette?

Yana Valachovic: I don't even know what the word means, so I'm embarrassed now that I've just said

Yana Valachovic: that.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: But the idea is really for like, um, public works projects or building projects, that it's kind of hyper-compressed.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And so you would come together… And I, I've never done this actually, but I, I hold it up as like something really like an interesting way to-

Scott Hammond: Could happen

Yana Valachovic: … could happen. So you basically bring in all the right people you need to analyze a project. So let's say it needs geologists. Let's say it needs an architect. Let's say it needs a transportation planner. Let's say it needs-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … you know, whatever that group of people is.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Yana Valachovic: You meet meeting one in the evening, collect the community ideas. The group is already assembled in a room, in a special place where they can take that information-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … think it through, and then a day later or two days

Yana Valachovic: later, come back together to the community and say, "I heard you."

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: "Here's what I think you said. We took those ideas, and here's the constraint list around the, the slope, the geology, the whatever, and here are the three options that we think we can do based on that physical s- constraint, and here's the ideas that we heard were important to you."

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Yana Valachovic: "What do you think?" And then the community, because they were there three days ago or two days ago-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … can give an immediate response. They feel heard, and you can kind of take care of a lot of that-

Scott Hammond: In a compressed way

Yana Valachovic: … in a compressed way. But that means you need to have a facility that can handle that. That means you've coordinated everybody's schedules.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Yana Valachovic: That means you've done it in a place where the people are capable of going to, so it's probably in a local location.

Scott Hammond: I love it.

Yana Valachovic: You know, you've g- dealt with all your IT issues, which have got to be horrible to

Yana Valachovic: do this and-

Scott Hammond: Jen Rice, shout out.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah, shout out. But I think it's the, the concept of like compressing it in a way where you can meet a natural rhythm of thought-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … and get in front of the thing that bugs you, which then turns into a, an, you know, a, a really acute issue and then causes you to send a viral email out to the world being unhappy and then, you know, it just grows and grows.

Scott Hammond: And here goes the down… the, the spiral, that long process.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And then things die.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: And then, and then we get to intractable conflict and-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … no way forward, or someone takes, you know, the political lump and says, "We're going forward."

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Right.

Yana Valachovic: Be gone with it.

Scott Hammond: And then they're, they're the villain and-

Yana Valachovic: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … it goes forward.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Hmm. Interesting. So let's talk about fires.

Scott Hammond: You-

Yana Valachovic: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … you're back from Los Angeles. T-t- so let's do the arc maybe the last month or so.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Pre- pre-fire. We have Santa Anas. We have fires. You're a fire

Scott Hammond: something-

Yana Valachovic: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … specialist.

Scott Hammond: May- um-

Yana Valachovic: Maybe I should just give a little the how did I get into the fire space.

Yana Valachovic: So the cool-

Scott Hammond: Yeah, let's talk about that. Yeah

Yana Valachovic: … the, the neat thing about extension is that you are given the freedom to pivot to issues that are- Of the day.

Yana Valachovic: And-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … nobody scripts my day, and nobody tells me what I need to do. But we, we hope to hire people that are curious and that are really committed to public service and committed to making the world a, a better place.

Scott Hammond: Love it.

Yana Valachovic: And, and so we, we describe it as mission work-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … uh, with, you know, work with purpose, work with meaning-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … which is one of the keys to happiness, right?

Scott Hammond: Love it. Yeah, absolutely.

Yana Valachovic: And so, uh, you know, in my job I get to learn things every day from other people, and sometimes I, um, am them asked to share and tell what I've learned. And by practice that becomes developing a new specialty or a new expertise.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And a long time ago, and I'll, I'll say that my dad started a wildfire, uh, weed whacking with a metal blade when I was 10-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … and in the southern part of the county where I grew up. So I was scarred by being the only one home when that happened.

Yana Valachovic: And-

Scott Hammond: Was he Cal Fire or something?

Scott Hammond: Or-

Yana Valachovic: No, no, he was just-

Scott Hammond: Oh

Yana Valachovic: … cutting the grass and-

Scott Hammond: Oh, he was. Okay

Yana Valachovic: … and it was a windy day, and hit a rock-

Scott Hammond: Oh, shoot

Yana Valachovic: … and all of a sudden we had a big wildfire.

Scott Hammond: Whoa.

Yana Valachovic: I lived in Oakland. Uh, I dropped out of college for a while, and I was living in Oakland during the Oakland Hills Fire.

Scott Hammond: Rad. That's a terrible fire.

Yana Valachovic: A terrible fire. Um, so fire was an, a different theme than it is now. Um, I went to graduate school and, and fire was looked at more from an ecological perspective and kinda the services that fire can provide-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … and trying to understand that. But for the most part, you know, California has sort of walked away from fire being good and into f- you know, fire as just something to worry about and we sort of-

Scott Hammond: Manage

Yana Valachovic: … and then we, we've sort of lost the culture and tools of using prescribed fire, using fire intentionally to provide beneficial-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … services, uh, from fuel reduction to things in the ecosystem to cultural use. And anyway, in that space I picked up some skills around how, um, buildings burn, and wood durability, and trying to understand how to reduce risk and how to manage the hazard. And, um, so I would bring programs from other places, and I started bringing these programs here. And you know how many people showed up in 2007, '8 and '9 for those classes?

Scott Hammond: Mm. Meh.

Yana Valachovic: Two.

Scott Hammond: Two. Hey.

Yana Valachovic: Four, maybe six.

Scott Hammond: Not that interesting.

Yana Valachovic: Not that interested.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Yana Valachovic: And but I, I found it really interesting, and I was really… I like wood products. I'm, I'm a forester now by, by training. I'm a licensed forester. You know, when you build, it's every time you have wood exposed, it makes people happy for the most part.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: Good fun word.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: Biophilia.

Scott Hammond: Biophilia.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Ladies and gentlemen- … the word of the day. We ha- we have one. Nick, we have our word. Biophilia. What is biophilia?

Yana Valachovic: Well, biophilia, so biology, you know, and how you feel in that space. So if we're in an environment where we either connect with nature or nature is present in there-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … uh, uh, we can see natural grain wood, like we're looking at a table here with natural grain wood. Like people's experience is well known to be better, and people are happier.

Scott Hammond: So it could happen in a forest or in a-

Yana Valachovic: But it, but when we have exposed wood, you know-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Yana Valachovic: … you look at a building now and you see exposed wood and you're like-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Yana Valachovic: … "Oh, that, that-

Scott Hammond: That's cool

Yana Valachovic: … that kinda feels right. I wanna-"

Scott Hammond: Carson, Carson Mansion's kinda cool.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah. I wanna hang out there when I see that wood.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: Uh, it comes from the… Really, it's being promoted through the mass timber movement, which is how we build, uh, ways that we can build differently where we re-replace cement and concrete-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … but with panels and cross-laminated timber and other

Yana Valachovic: ways-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … to construct.

Scott Hammond: Hardie Plank?

Yana Valachovic: Uh, no. Hardie Plank is, uh, a cement, um-

Scott Hammond: Right. It's not wood.

Yana Valachovic: It's not wood, no.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. But that replaced wood.

Yana Valachovic: Well, so this is, this is really about designing buildings of the future that use wood in a panelized frame or-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … in a, in an interlocking frame to build something that's stronger, uh, can be pre- pre-developed-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … and you assemble it on site, and so it can be cheaper.

Scott Hammond: Do we… Name some. Do we have some in Humboldt?

Yana Valachovic: We don't have any in Humboldt yet.

Scott Hammond: Good. We don't have any-

Yana Valachovic: But it's kind of this new, this new-

Scott Hammond: Oh

Yana Valachovic: … trend and new movement. Um, and in the architectural world-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … we'll, they talk about biophilia.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Yana Valachovic: So anyway, I learned about how buildings burn and would try and promote some classes around how we can do things differently from a fuels management perspective-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … and, and other aspects, and people are just like, "Yawn. I'm not interested."

Scott Hammond: And then the fires.

Yana Valachovic: And so then, um, the person I was working with, who I was learning from within the university system, he retired and he went somewhere else. He retired early and took a second job at-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … a really interesting lab called the Insurance Institute for Business and Home Safety, which is in-

Scott Hammond: Heard of it

Yana Valachovic: … South Carolina.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Yana Valachovic: And they are, um, within the insurance industry. They are funded to focus on, on vulnerabilities and try and understand those vulnerabilities and then bring information back to the building products industry-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … and the insurers to, to get a better handle on how we might mitigate that risk. Thinking about hurricanes.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

Yana Valachovic: Water damage is the number one problem in hurricanes, so how do we design a different roof to manage that?

Scott Hammond: Okay.

Yana Valachovic: So, um, 2017 happens, and if you remember, that's the, the North Bay fires or the Tubbs Fire.

Scott Hammond: Mm. Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: And-

Scott Hammond: That's Santa Rosa where it all came down and-

Yana Valachovic: Right. So it starts, it's, it's one of the first power line fires-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … attributed, and it, and it rushes over from Calistoga into Santa Rosa.

Yana Valachovic: And-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Yana Valachovic: … you know, it's h- very devastating. And I was like-

Scott Hammond: Oh, yeah

Yana Valachovic: … and I'm like, "You know, we've been talking about this for a long time, and no one's been listening." And my industry in the forest side was all like, "We need more fuel breaks. We need more fuel reduction. It's all about the forest." And I'm like, "You know what? We lose more buildings in fires unrelated to forests-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … than we do in forests." Um, statistically across the United States, that's, that's the trend.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: Grassland systems, chaparral systems, shrub systems.

Scott Hammond: How would the Paradise Fire f- fit, fit into that statement?

Yana Valachovic: So Para- Paradise is, is a f- is a forest-based fire.

Scott Hammond: That's an example.

Yana Valachovic: But, but Santa Rosa, those fires aren't.

Scott Hammond: Was not. Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: Uh-uh. And, uh, and LA is not, as an example. And you know, what you see is that buildings tend to burn from the inside out.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Yana Valachovic: And it's like, how is that happening? And it's not because the flaming front- … causes the building to spontaneously combust. It's that in front of the flaming front, when you've got wind behind it, the fire is picking up pieces of debris and throwing embers in front of it, starting spot fires, and those embers, uh, are capable of landing on or in the building, and they can worm their way into the structure-

Scott Hammond: Interesting

Yana Valachovic: … and the structure burns from the inside out-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Yana Valachovic: … because we have vents that allow embers to enter.

Scott Hammond: See, now that's pretty rad. That's, that's revelati- revelation-

Yana Valachovic: It's, it's-

Scott Hammond: … to me

Yana Valachovic: … radical different thinking.

Scott Hammond: So it's going, it, so that's why we have screens on things th- that don't probably work perfectly.

Yana Valachovic: We have screens on things to keep animals out.

Scott Hammond: Right, but it doesn't keep embers out.

Yana Valachovic: It doesn't keep embers out, and so there's a whole new class of vents that are basically designed-

Scott Hammond: So we have the tech

Yana Valachovic: … to be-

Scott Hammond: We can do it

Yana Valachovic: … to be like GORE-TEX. You know, where GORE-TEX we wear it to keep the elements from coming in-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … but still allow our, you know, m- moisture and heat from-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … whatever we're doing out, and we need that on our buildings. And so the rough term right now is called home hardening-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … which is basically-

Scott Hammond: Sure

Yana Valachovic: … uh, retrofitting or designing the exterior element of the structure-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … uh, to be more robust to fire exposure.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Yana Valachovic: And there's three ways. So there's direct flame contact, flame coming at the

Yana Valachovic: building.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: Embers, small bits of debris that land on or in.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: Open dog or cat door, open window, skylight-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … through the vents.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: Um, w-

Scott Hammond: Foundational openings.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah, a little bit, little less so. There's not often that much stuff under there, but-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … and then the third piece is radiant heat, which is your neighboring building burns-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … and it produces enough heat to cause damage on the primary structure.

Scott Hammond: Uh, and then start it.

Yana Valachovic: And so typically in that case, it'll be that the glazing on a vinyl window will melt, and then the window panes fall out.

Scott Hammond: Whoa. And then y- you're off to the races.

Yana Valachovic: And then, and then you've got a hole in your house.

Scott Hammond: It's over.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: So-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Yana Valachovic: … that, God, it just like, everything clicked. I'm like, "You know, I know about the forest. I know about the buildings. I know a lot about public policy. I know a lot about-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Yana Valachovic: … how we bring policy to rational conversation, and how do we advance this community framework and-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … this community protection framework. We've got to do something differently."

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Yana Valachovic: It, we can't keep living and building in the same way.

Scott Hammond: So how does it feel to have the message and not be heard? We talked about not being heard.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And now have your moment that's magical-

Yana Valachovic: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: …

Scott Hammond: and in such a hard w- but wonderful opportunity to fix something.

Yana Valachovic: It's a crazy moment.

Scott Hammond: It's a cra-

Yana Valachovic: It's a-

Scott Hammond: You must be like, where's, where's the… Do you get interviewed a lot? I mean- … you must be, like, starting to find stages.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah. I spent this week with The New York Times in, in Los Angeles.

Scott Hammond: Rad.

Yana Valachovic: Um-

Scott Hammond: Tell us about that.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah. So anyway, just to give that-

Scott Hammond: Okay

Yana Valachovic: … that parent- that parenthetical history, that's where… So in 2017, my program almost wholly pivoted into the fire space-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … and, and it's been, uh, a lot of post-fire investigations. How do we, you know, do we know what we think we know in the real world when a whole lot of communities burn down? 'Cause unfortunately we've tested that-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … in Santa Rosa. We've tested it in Redding and, and out, in and around

Yana Valachovic: Paradise.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

Yana Valachovic: I've been to the Marshall Fire, which is in Boulder, in the surrounding communities around Boulder.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Yana Valachovic: A couple fires in Los Ange- or Southern California.

Scott Hammond: So your, your, your people give you the latitude to go, "Here's my new focus."

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: You have that flexibility.

Yana Valachovic: I, and the thing is-

Scott Hammond: Good for you

Yana Valachovic: … I mean, this is about bringing good concepts home, and I haven't been able to bring the good concepts home unless I go out into the bigger world to understand the issues-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … and then help drive the conversation around funding allocations-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … around policy that can make a difference, around where do we make investments-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … so that we are more resilient and more robust, and so that Humboldt doesn't have to burn first-

Scott Hammond: Right

Yana Valachovic: … before we have to learn those lessons.

Scott Hammond: Right, or the next part of LA or whatever.

Yana Valachovic: Or whatever it is. And, and-

Scott Hammond: Or the Valley

Yana Valachovic: … you know, we can't afford to keep burning communities up. We can't afford to-

Scott Hammond: No

Yana Valachovic: … the loss of life, and we're driving our economy on the edge of the cliff when we connect it to insurance and connect all these tracks and threads coming together, so-

Scott Hammond: Right

Yana Valachovic: … I've been in this really engaging, rich conversational space and education space around how do we connect these.

Yana Valachovic: And-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … you know, fire adaptation means turning the dial to 11. You know, and it's on every front, and it's about breaking down silos and about really reprogramming how we, how we-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Yana Valachovic: … operate, how we think about things, how we do our emergency response.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: You know-

Scott Hammond: So this is Cal Fire. This is Sacramento.

Yana Valachovic: This-

Scott Hammond: This is the insurance industry.

Yana Valachovic: This is-

Scott Hammond: This is everybody coming-

Yana Valachovic: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … figuring it out.

Yana Valachovic: And it's, and it's brought me into-

Scott Hammond: Builders

Yana Valachovic: … many of the western states in-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Yana Valachovic: … conversations, so.

Scott Hammond: Rock, rock and roll.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Good for you.

Yana Valachovic: So I'm, I'm having, um, a-

Scott Hammond: It's your mo-

Yana Valachovic: … moment where I feel like-

Scott Hammond: It's your moment

Yana Valachovic: … I, well, I'm doing something that's gonna make a difference for generations to

Yana Valachovic: come.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And if we can, you know, recognize it took the state that we live in more than 150 years to develop the infrastructure we have, it's, we're not gonna pivot overnight, but-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … we can't make better decisions without good information.

Yana Valachovic: And-

Scott Hammond: Yeah, and I think it's, that'll take time and decades to do, but if you could set

Scott Hammond: the, the, if you could write the manual for it, then that'd be really

Scott Hammond: magic.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah. I mean, it-

Scott Hammond: That'd be cool

Yana Valachovic: … it, I mean, for example, seat belts, we learned that we die-

Scott Hammond: Hey

Yana Valachovic: … in cars without seat belts.

Scott Hammond: Go figure.

Yana Valachovic: And seat belts came out first for the front seats and not the back seats.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And then it took another decade-

Scott Hammond: And then there's airbags

Yana Valachovic: … to get to the back seats, and then there's car seats, and there's-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … you know, and who's the ambassador for sharing that information?

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And so trying to develop a whole system of-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … social change-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Yana Valachovic: … is-

Scott Hammond: That would be a study to find out who were the front-running, uh, champions for different things like that and what they did-

Yana Valachovic: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … what they had to go through, and how they were-

Yana Valachovic: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … uh, successful. That'd be-

Yana Valachovic: Well, I mean, I thought about-

Scott Hammond: … a whole study

Yana Valachovic: … I thought about car seats, and, um, you know, any, if any of our listeners had that moment and that privilege of having a baby, there's this moment where you have to take your baby home if you don't-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … if you don't have, you know, have that baby in your house.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: And there's this horrible moment of decision around I wanna hold it in my arms.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: It's swaddled all up, so the arms and legs don't flail.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And the last thing you wanna do is unswaddle that baby 'cause it's gonna wake up.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

Yana Valachovic: And I wanna hold it in my arms. I do not wanna put it in that car seat.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: I c- maybe I could put it in a box in the back, you know, behind the driver's seat. Seems like that might feel safer 'cause a multi-point harness Revolves or involves taking that swaddle out.

Scott Hammond: Right, right.

Yana Valachovic: And like, heck am I gonna do that?

Scott Hammond: Right.

Yana Valachovic: But how do I do it? A nurse walks with me out to my car-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … and shows me how to do that.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Yana Valachovic: When you buy a new home and you get the keys to the house, doesn't come with a nurse.

Scott Hammond: Ain't no nurse.

Yana Valachovic: And there isn't anybody that tells you how the system of that house works, how it functions.

Scott Hammond: How do you fire it?

Yana Valachovic: Your real estate agent might know something, and so-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … what do you do? You, you know, you call your dad. You, you, you go to the hardware store, the lumber store and-

Scott Hammond: Right

Yana Valachovic: … try to understand something.

Scott Hammond: Google it.

Yana Valachovic: You know, you Google it. But, like, I think the point to me is that when we want to invest in, in social change, we, we invest in a different level. We invest in the nurse that's gonna help us-

Scott Hammond: Ah

Yana Valachovic: … manage that pivotal moment of how to address that car seat with that infant, and I feel like we need the nurse equivalent in the home acquisition process to say, "Guess what? You've just bought this house. Let me tell you how that-

Scott Hammond: Let me help you.

Yana Valachovic: "Let me help you. Let me share the way it works."

Scott Hammond: So-

Yana Valachovic: "Let me help you think about these systems."

Scott Hammond: … who do you think of as the nurses to be?

Yana Valachovic: I don't, I-

Scott Hammond: Real- realtors?

Yana Valachovic: I mean, yes.

Scott Hammond: Can they do that? I, I don't know.

Yana Valachovic: Uh, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Some could.

Yana Valachovic: I mean, there's the home inspectors. There's, there's a lot of different people.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: But I think it, there's-

Scott Hammond: Mortgage folks? I don't-

Yana Valachovic: There's a whole new industry of people that, and workforce that could be developed that-

Scott Hammond: And it's called fire hardening, right? That's kind of the general-

Yana Valachovic: Yeah, and, and-

Scott Hammond: … layman's term.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah, and so, like, some of the things that have occurred now when you purchase a home-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … and that's where you have the most flexibility, is, uh, people are ripe. You know, they're willing, they're willing to do things for the sale. You know, they're willing to make the sale happen-

Scott Hammond: Sure

Yana Valachovic: … one way or another.

Scott Hammond: Regardless. Yeah, maybe.

Yana Valachovic: Right. And so that's when, when people are more nimble.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: Uh, and so there's now a disclosure process for the fuels reduction that have happened-

Scott Hammond: Ah

Yana Valachovic: … on that property-

Scott Hammond: That's cool

Yana Valachovic: … which can become a negotiating point. It's not mandatory that-

Scott Hammond: But it set the system to do so.

Yana Valachovic: Right. And soon coming is gonna be a disclosure about the home hardening that has or has not happened.

Scott Hammond: Cool.

Yana Valachovic: So I think maybe the home inspectors could be someone that could be-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … trained to-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … describe the systems and how they function and where the weak points are and-

Scott Hammond: But I'm surprised there's not that many of those folks even in Humboldt.

Yana Valachovic: Well, and, and what I-

Scott Hammond: I mean, there's a handful

Yana Valachovic: … and I mean, for all of those folks that are out there, I'm gonna say something. I don't mean to be picking at you, but there isn't a license that I'm aware of-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … that says y- it's like the, the, the quality of the experience is really based on the word of mouth from-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … the real estate agent who said, "You know, I, I think that guy or that lady knew something about what they were talking about."

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: "I'm gonna continue to use them." It's not like they're-

Scott Hammond: Right

Yana Valachovic: … certified in, in certain systems. And I would like to train as many people as I can-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … and develop programs that work with people that ha- you know, that touch people in some way.

Yana Valachovic: So from the-

Scott Hammond: Love it

Yana Valachovic: … the person… I mean, look at the Pearson's folks. I mean, you go to Pearson's and-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … all the people that work in Pearson's, for the most part, have all been professionals in whatever department they're in, and they know a lot about it. Like, how do we have quality folks like that

Yana Valachovic: available, you know, to us as homeowners to help us make wise decisions?

Scott Hammond: Love that. Love it.

Yana Valachovic: So I just went to LA 'cause-

Scott Hammond: So you have a mission.

Yana Valachovic: I do.

Scott Hammond: Turns out you're a Blues Brothers. You're on a mission from God.

Yana Valachovic: Oh, totally.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. No, I love it. You, uh… So tell us about LA and, uh, and, and The New York Times, and I, I, I imagine it's devastating taking the drives.

Yana Valachovic: It is. Uh, uh, this is not my first rodeo with it, so I'm a little bit-

Scott Hammond: You've been down a couple times already, right?

Scott Hammond: Since-

Yana Valachovic: Yeah. But I mean, just in terms of seeing communities burn. I don't have– For me, it's possible 'cause I don't really know anybody, and I-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … don't know anybody's home.

Scott Hammond: Ah.

Yana Valachovic: And so I can look at it from a-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … a learning lesson place. It's, um… You can't get in right now. It's still, they're still under barricades to, to just allow the contractors to do what they need to do and-

Scott Hammond: Right

Yana Valachovic: … in terms of the cleanup process. I have gone in both with CAL FIRE as well as with some research partners, and then this last trip with the, with The New York Times.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And in all of those, I'm really looking at the question of why do certain buildings survive? Can I figure out what the key ingredients were?

Scott Hammond: It's a forensic sort of stuff.

Yana Valachovic: It's kind of this detective forensic CSI stuff.

Scott Hammond: Totally. Wow.

Yana Valachovic: And it's, you know, it's, it-

Scott Hammond: That's cool. I like that

Yana Valachovic: … it's nerdy, and it's fun to me, and-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Yana Valachovic: … you know, you're trying to recreate what you think happened in certain locations. And y- once you see a bur- a building that's burned, it's collapsed, and there's not a whole lot you can pick up from that. It's the buildings that are either damaged and are still intact to some degree, or the ones that, you know, only had very limited exposure.

Scott Hammond: Or the one outlier in the neighborhood that's still there.

Yana Valachovic: Right. And so The New York Times was-

Scott Hammond: Huh

Yana Valachovic: … curious around sole survivors, as they were calling it, and-

Scott Hammond: What are you– So what are your top three takeaways from what, what worked for the sole survivors-

Yana Valachovic: Well-

Scott Hammond: … homes?

Yana Valachovic: I don't know if you were like me, but when I was listening to the media, my sense was that there was nobody there.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Yana Valachovic: That there were no fire officials that were helping, that there was no water, and people ran out of water, and it was-

Scott Hammond: Overplayed, yeah. Overstated.

Yana Valachovic: And that turns out not to be true. There were a lot of firefighters deployed and r- ready and waiting, um, in anticipation of that wind event. That wind event was, was recognized as being very dangerous. And so a lot of good work happened, and there were a lot of people that responded and helped homes survive.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And what did that look like? That looked like, uh, a wooden gate that would attach to the structure could become the wick of the fire to the building. People coming through, kicking them open, chainsaw, not, you know, cutting them off, smashing them off. So I would find a partially charred gate and that gate thrown away from the building. So that disconnects the wick from the fence-

Scott Hammond: Oh, okay

Yana Valachovic: … to the house.

Scott Hammond: And the house was a sole survivor in this case.

Yana Valachovic: And the house was a sole survivor.

Scott Hammond: Quick shout-out to s- to all the first responders.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Those guys and gals-

Yana Valachovic: I mean, and it-

Scott Hammond: … pretty amazing

Yana Valachovic: … and you can do a lot too. And so, you know, they're making strategic decisions around this house has– You know, I, I've got, I've got a chance I can do something. That house I can't. And you know, it's hard to see water and where water was applied, but where you can see that physical disruption, you can see that. Sometimes you can see a section where, like, the fire gets right at the door, base of the door, 'cause there's debris that connects, collects right at the, like, the entryway. And-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … they'll take an ax, and they'll just chop into the wall a little bit to make sure they've got the fire out of that, that little section. So you can see some, some of that kind of history.

Yana Valachovic: Um-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Yana Valachovic: You can see hose lays, you can see hose rub marks. You can- there's, there's different pieces that you can see for that sign.

Yana Valachovic: Um-

Scott Hammond: So you're going in with a whole d- new set of eyes. So if we wa- if I walked around, Mi- Nick and I would go, "Wow, bummer."

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: You'd go, "Oh, look at… This is evidence that this was-"

Yana Valachovic: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … saved-

Yana Valachovic: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … because they did this."

Yana Valachovic: Yep. Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Yana Valachovic: I met a homeowner the day before yesterday. His neighbor's house was one that was on our list to go look at, and, um, he was, he was in a dark place, and I 100% understood the dark place that he was in. And for the most part, I'm not meeting people. I'm, I'm there just looking at buildings-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … and it takes the emotionality of it away, which is-

Scott Hammond: There's still people around

Yana Valachovic: … But there, you know, then I ran into… And so, you know, if I'm poking around, I'm like, "Hi, I'm from the University of

Yana Valachovic: California-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … and, uh, I, you know, I, I look at how buildings survive. Do you know what happened here?" And so he, you know, he started telling me, and then, um, I said, "Do you mind if I look around? I, you know, I'm curious what, what might have happened." He's like-

Scott Hammond: This is a sole survivor building?

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Okay, yeah.

Yana Valachovic: And he's like, "You know, it was just luck." And I said, "Do you mind if I look?" And he's like, "Eh." So he let me, and I walked around and I found three wooden

Yana Valachovic: planters that had all ignited, and they were small pots, um, smaller than a wine barrel, but kind of that concept, and they all had evidence of burn on them, but they were splintered apart. Someone had come through with an ax, knocked them apart, kicked them apart, and prevented the fire from continuing to expand.

Scott Hammond: Some more wick, wick material.

Yana Valachovic: Wick material. And, and I… A- and there were so- a couple other details too.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Yana Valachovic: And I walked back to the front of the house and I was like, you know, "Thank you very much for letting me look around. Would you like to know what I saw?" And he's like, "I, I don't know. Nobody was here." And I said, "There's clear evidence that somebody was here." And I said, "You know, someone was here and had your back."

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Yana Valachovic: "And they made a difference." And, and, and I don't know that he wanted to hear it.

Scott Hammond: Still, yeah. Shock.

Yana Valachovic: But, um, I don't know. The ability to be an ambassador in that moment and help people understand-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … that there were a lot of folks that put their heart and soul into it

Yana Valachovic: and-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … ran into the flames where we were asking folks to run out of the flames-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … and to, you know, to fight hard for, for everyone's memory and their history-

Scott Hammond: Good work

Yana Valachovic: … and their culture.

Scott Hammond: I, I love it. I, I love the fact that you, um, you're highlighting that. I think it's really important 'cause, you know, ABC News did three minutes on it and I got it, and it was all not there. Uh, so Altadena Fire went to that, and Pas- and-

Yana Valachovic: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … and Pacific Palisades?

Yana Valachovic: Yeah, I've been to both. So, so there's that part, right? There's a lot of people there. But then there are a lot of things that, uh, put homes in better condition-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … and are, are more likely to be successful, and so I was also looking for those signs. And double pane windows, much better than single pane windows.

Scott Hammond: Oh, yeah.

Yana Valachovic: Most of the structures in both of those two fire footprints are from 1970 or earlier, so there's a lot of single pane windows that were still left and-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … it's, it, a single pane window can't handle heat, and it will break and

Scott Hammond: And then the fire starts inside.

Yana Valachovic: And then fire gets inside. So-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Yana Valachovic: … when people had upgraded their windows, made a difference.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Yana Valachovic: Uh, when, like new remodels used tempered glass windows-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … and tempering, uh, changes the heat resistive quality of the glass, and so people that had tempered glass windows had, had much better outcomes.

Scott Hammond: So not as much about siding as I would have thought. It's windows and other-

Yana Valachovic: Well, and, and-

Scott Hammond: … openings

Yana Valachovic: … and that's in part because in Southern California it's mostly kind of that Mediterranean style construction.

Yana Valachovic: You'll see-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … a lot of barrel tiled, kind of terracotta-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … uh, roofing, and you'll see a lot of stucco or stucco-like products.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Yana Valachovic: And so the siding itself is non-combustible.

Scott Hammond: Are there any shake roofs anymore?

Yana Valachovic: Not many. And those-

Scott Hammond: Those are really-

Yana Valachovic: And those would have gone down there

Scott Hammond: … those are terrible.

Yana Valachovic: They're beautiful. I mean, I had one for a long time.

Scott Hammond: Right. They were the big kinda thing.

Yana Valachovic: They were cool.

Scott Hammond: So were bell-bottoms.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah, well, it's in bell-bottom. Yeah. All right. Right.

Scott Hammond: I…

Yana Valachovic: Uh, the, the other piece though, I just wanna bring it forward, is that what we store around the building, what we plant around-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … the building really matters. So having a lot of garden beds with combustible mulch all around the structure is like-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … um, putting dynamite around the outside of our house.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Yana Valachovic: I- you are setting the stage for ignition from embers, and then you've got flames directly on the side of the house. So f- so for people that had put gravel walkways-

Scott Hammond: Uh-huh

Yana Valachovic: … had done some cool rock work, maybe had a patio and-

Scott Hammond: It looks cool, but it's totally-

Yana Valachovic: But, but it fit in, in that cult- in their aesthetic-

Scott Hammond: Sure

Yana Valachovic: … and those details made a huge difference.

Scott Hammond: So you're kinda dangerous. You're, you're gonna change… You're a game changer. I mean, at least your thought pattern would

Scott Hammond: be, "Hey, what if we could mitigate fires?" But, um, mulch industry is gonna die, has to go away or do something different.

Yana Valachovic: Well, no. No, it-

Scott Hammond: I mean, so-

Yana Valachovic: I think mulch just needs to be used appropriately.

Yana Valachovic: And, and-

Scott Hammond: Maybe away from the house.

Yana Valachovic: Right.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: I mean, I mean, here, think about it this way. Why do we have fire retardant chemicals in our beds?

Scott Hammond: Hmm. So they don't burn?

Yana Valachovic: Right. But well, that came from people's behavior around smoking.

Scott Hammond: Oh.

Yana Valachovic: And you couldn't-

Scott Hammond: Cigarettes in bed

Yana Valachovic: … change behavior, so you changed the nature of the product.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Yana Valachovic: And everyone got caught up in that.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: Uh, and so, you know, I work in the forest products industry. I'm a proud contributor to that space.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Yana Valachovic: And for me, I don't blame the bed, and I don't blame the wood.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: I wanna change behavior so that we can use wood appropriately in the right places and wood-based products in the right places.

Scott Hammond: Why do we not smoke in restaurants?

Scott Hammond: Because-

Yana Valachovic: Mm

Scott Hammond: … it's secondhand smoke kills people.

Yana Valachovic: Right. But we have cha-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Yana Valachovic: … I mean, we've ca- passed a law and we've changed that behavior, right?

Scott Hammond: Right. It can be done.

Yana Valachovic: So we shouldn't store stuff underneath our wood deck-

Scott Hammond: Right

Yana Valachovic: … because that stuff's gonna get ignited by direct-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … flame contact or embers-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … and then the deck burns. It's not the wood on the deck's fault.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: It's really our, our behavior around-

Scott Hammond: Right

Yana Valachovic: … not recognizing that we can make that deck more vulnerable by doing certain

Yana Valachovic: things.

Scott Hammond: So I'm a homeowner at Humboldt.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And you're just gonna speak to millions of people on the podcast. You– So where would you send us to fire harden our

Scott Hammond: home-

Yana Valachovic: Information

Scott Hammond: … this, this summer? Or, or earlier

Yana Valachovic: Well, uh, pretty simple to look up University of California FIRE-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … and you'll run into our FIRE website where we've got, um, we do not represent an organizat- I mean, a, you know, a product.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

Yana Valachovic: We're not trying to sell you anything, but we have detailed information around what each product does-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … how the assembly works, and kinda where the vulnerabilities are.

Scott Hammond: So start there. You could go there.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah. And so, I mean, the top three, you need a roof in good shape.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: Roof shoulders the majority of the responsibility for-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … protecting the structure from hail, from snow, from water, from fire.

Scott Hammond: This is a good roof right here on this house, by the way.

Yana Valachovic: Perfect.

Scott Hammond: Noticed your roof on the way in. Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: Number two, the vents-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … need to be a finer mesh screen.

Scott Hammond: Ah.

Yana Valachovic: And you can upgrade to the, to the new, new ones-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … or you can just add another layer of mesh screen that's one-eighth inch thick.

Scott Hammond: Not that hard to go put those on.

Yana Valachovic: Not that hard. Don't spray them. Don't y- when you paint, don't spray the vents though, 'cause you will clog them up, and then you, then you can mess up the, the moisture management and the

Yana Valachovic: airflow.

Scott Hammond: Oh.

Yana Valachovic: So, you know, you have to treat them a little differently, but-

Scott Hammond: This includes those roof vents that come out

Yana Valachovic: The through-roof vents, yep.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: And from the inside though.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: And then third, we need to have a m- a moat, a zone, we call it zone zero, around the structure that has no combustible material-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Yana Valachovic: … for the first five feet. That means you can keep your property line fence, but when it attaches to the house, upgrade the, upgrade that attachment point to something non-combustible.

Scott Hammond: It's a wick.

Yana Valachovic: It's a wick. You need to cut-

Scott Hammond: So that deck fence… Oh, my deck fence comes right into…

Scott Hammond: Oh.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah, no, it's… That's, that's-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Yana Valachovic: … that's the one place that it's, it's gonna feel a little rougher, but-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … great place for innovation. So much potential to make beautiful-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … gates. Uh, I haven't been able to talk anybody into it yet, but it's, this is a, um, a marketing opportunity-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … for someone to really jump into-

Scott Hammond: Something non-combustible

Yana Valachovic: … Yeah. I mean, with a CNC machine and COR-TEN steel, like you could make some

Yana Valachovic: really cool-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … gates. Um-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … there's other things you can use too.

Scott Hammond: So a do-it-yourselfer could do all this.

Yana Valachovic: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: In the do-it-yourself space, it-

Scott Hammond: You don't need to have a bunch of builders or-

Yana Valachovic: No. I mean, uh, you're gonna have to have a conversation with whoever gardens and say, "You know what? We just need to move that a little bit farther away from the house."

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: It's great for, you know, moisture management, insect management, being able to paint the house.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: Uh, I mean, it's, it's-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Yana Valachovic: … good for many other reasons. But fire adaptation basically means that we have to adapt.

Scott Hammond: I like it.

Yana Valachovic: We have to d- live differently. And I'm not afraid to rebuild in Paradise-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … or LA, but I would do it differently, and I… You know, in the rebuild space, there's a lot to be thought about in terms of building design, materials-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … and other elements. But thinking about exposures from the front end being just as important as how the kitchen functions and how-

Scott Hammond: Sure

Yana Valachovic: … you know, the other elements, like that is not a conversation that we've typically had.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Yana Valachovic: And that's the conversation that we need to start to have.

Scott Hammond: Amen. I love it. So there's no reason why even us in McKinleyville, who never burn, rarely ever-

Yana Valachovic: Well-

Scott Hammond: … couldn't do this. I- it's, it just makes universal sense.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah. And let's-

Scott Hammond: I mean-

Yana Valachovic: I mean, let's talk about the, those that live in coastal Humboldt County.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. There's people that thought they would never burn, and they-

Yana Valachovic: Right. And so, you know, our frequency for burn is low.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: Right? But when we're in condition, when we have a red flag warning-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … what's going on with the rest of the state?

Scott Hammond: Crazy.

Yana Valachovic: Right? They're all dry. Like when we're dry, everybody else is dry.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And the, the piece that we have to worry about is the sequence of ignitions.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: So if we're first in line, then we've got resources here. But if it's like the 2020 Lightning Series that happened through Santa Cruz and then came up through the South Bay-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … we were last, we would be last in line if that were, that kind of scenario were to lay out. And, and the problem is that our… We have a great fire protection system, and we have this whole system of mutual aid and deployment.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: Um, but when you have multiple ignitions and they're near places with lots of people, the first protection is life, and so resources go to get-

Scott Hammond: Go in there

Yana Valachovic: … to go for evacuation.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: We may not have many resources left.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And we may have a short period of a burn window, but it could move-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … rather quickly. So I think of it as a low probability, high severity potential.

Yana Valachovic: So-

Scott Hammond: Good, good way to see it

Yana Valachovic: … right. It's, you know, it's the thing you would least expect, and we have, we have reason to sort of less expect it than other locations in California, but it doesn't mean that the risk hasn't gone away.

Scott Hammond: And I think of the fire in, in Ashland and Medford that came up-

Yana Valachovic: Right

Scott Hammond: … Bear Creek, and they had very few resources, but they were able to… But it did a lot of damage, and s- to see that fire is

Scott Hammond: crazy.

Yana Valachovic: Right. And that was, you know-

Scott Hammond: 'Cause those are people that were already on other fires.

Yana Valachovic: Right. That was a four-hour burn period.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: Paradise was an eight-hour burn period.

Scott Hammond: Really? And LA was days, right?

Yana Valachovic: LA's was a couple days, you know-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Yana Valachovic: … 'cause the wind continued for those couple of days.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Wow.

Yana Valachovic: Um, but most of the fire footprint was already established in-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … that first, that first window. So I mean, it's, it's, it's a hard, cold way to wake up, and I, you know, I don't, I don't wish this upon any community.

Yana Valachovic: It's-

Scott Hammond: No

Yana Valachovic: … this is multi-generational burdens.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: It, you know, it is trauma, and it is financial ruin for many, and it's something that you never wanna go through, and you don't just wanna say, "I have insurance. I hate this house. I just, you know, hope I can start over," because it's not something that you wanna wish on yourself or your kids-

Scott Hammond: No

Yana Valachovic: … or your family or your neighbors or any of it.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And it's, um, the social context, the social loss is so

Yana Valachovic: significant-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Yana Valachovic: … and the, the long-term reach into your community and the-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … impact that it has is horrific.

Scott Hammond: I could imagine mental health and PTSD from some of the stuff too that

Scott Hammond: people-

Yana Valachovic: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … would suffer for years maybe.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Just like, what a, what a total… "It's my home for 50 years. I was raised there."

Yana Valachovic: Right.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: And you're gonna be lucky if you can rebuild in three.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Yana Valachovic: And it's probably gonna take five.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Yana Valachovic: And, uh, and your life moves on in that process, and you may not… You know, where, where do you hang out in that time period?

Scott Hammond: Right.

Yana Valachovic: And it's not because insurance didn't pay out quick enough. It's because of so many layered effects-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Yana Valachovic: … and contractor availability and design review-

Scott Hammond: Malibu.

Yana Valachovic: Right.

Scott Hammond: Let's rebuild in Malibu

Yana Valachovic: … Well, and, and just getting resources and all the materials. I mean, we went through COVID. We know what happens when you break supply chains and how-

Scott Hammond: Oh, yeah

Yana Valachovic: … how difficult that is.

Scott Hammond: Right. That demand. So, uh, parting shots on, on that

Scott Hammond: note?

Yana Valachovic: I don't know. I mean, I really, within this, to me, there's, there's gotta be some

Yana Valachovic: optimism-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … and there has to be some hope.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And, you know, I hope that people can take a moment and don't just give up, and don't just say, "This is climate, this and that. I can't do anything."

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: Don't just say like, "This is so big. It's so much bigger than me. I can't do anything."

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And, you know, our physicians can't save us on our own. You know, we have to be a good patient and recognize the things that are within our control in terms of behavior changes, diet and exercise. We all know that's a good idea, right?

Scott Hammond: There's a price to pay for that.

Yana Valachovic: And, and so, you know, the physicians aren't gonna be save us if we're not capable of adding those behavioral changes into our overall health. And I guess I think of it in the same way. Like, we can become a better partner in the fire services effort, and we can do a lot more to build durability into our structures-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … and, um, build communication into our communities, and understand evacuation better, and be more aware of the fire, you know, weather that we're in, and recognize, like, oh, it's a red flag warning

Yana Valachovic: day.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: I should have my go bag in my car. I'm gonna pre-anticipate that I'm maybe not gonna go home.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: I'm not gonna come home tonight, so I've already closed my windows.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: You know, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna shelter my pet at, at the shelter today. I'm not gonna leave them there, so that's-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … tugging at me to go back.

Scott Hammond: We hardened the home six months ago. It's already-

Yana Valachovic: And-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Yana Valachovic: … right. And so I know that I've put in a good faith effort and-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Yana Valachovic: … you know, there's some things that I won't be able to control completely, but I have made such a substantial difference that I'm not gonna panic.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: And, uh, you know, fire's never gonna leave California.

Scott Hammond: No.

Yana Valachovic: It's, this is a, you know, we're in a Mediterranean ecosystem, which means that we get a prolonged drought period, and the vegetation is well-adapted to having fire with some periodicity. We just happen to live in the middle of that and not-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … quite understand that, you know, it's impacting us now.

Scott Hammond: We didn't even talk climate change yet. That's maybe another show.

Yana Valachovic: Maybe another show. But I am optimistic that we can really, um, improve the way that we coexist with fire and-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … and have a future that's, you know, multi-generational and has all, you know, or many of the attributes that we love about California-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Yana Valachovic: … and a way that we can protect our, our financial stability and our community and, and, you know, have our kids know that, that this was the place that we chose, and we chose well.

Scott Hammond: I like your hope. That's good. Thanks for coming.

Yana Valachovic: Oh, thanks for having me.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Uh, thanks for, uh, all, all the things. Gosh. Um, this is where I do the thank you.

Yana Valachovic: Oh .

Scott Hammond: So thank you.

Yana Valachovic: Thank you.

Scott Hammond: And usually I do a quiz, all your favorite things in Humboldt.

Yana Valachovic: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Maybe we'll t- I'll ask you that next time.

Yana Valachovic: Mm-hmm. Yeah. River spots.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. River spots.

Yana Valachovic: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Ooh. Okay. Try that one. Go.

Scott Hammond: Wait.

Yana Valachovic: Oh, my-

Scott Hammond: For $10,000, favorite river spots in Humboldt.

Yana Valachovic: Oh, in Humboldt. Um, I really like certain places in near Alderpoint, to be

Yana Valachovic: honest. Um-

Scott Hammond: Oh, way out there.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah. On the-

Scott Hammond: Okay

Yana Valachovic: … on the main stem. I'm a s- I'm a South Fork Eel girl.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: So, uh, there's a lot between Myers Flat and Redway that I like.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: Um, there's some, um,

Yana Valachovic: Away, A-W-A-

Scott Hammond: Beautiful one, yeah

Yana Valachovic: … on the McCloud. Right.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

Yana Valachovic: Um, great family memories there.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Yana Valachovic: Lots of camping trips and beautiful, beautiful river-

Scott Hammond: Nice

Yana Valachovic: … explorations there. Yeah.

Yana Valachovic: How's that?

Scott Hammond: I like it. I have one.

Yana Valachovic: Okay.

Scott Hammond: Pistol River. Up the Pistol in Oregon.

Yana Valachovic: Well, that's not Humboldt.

Scott Hammond: Is this… I know.

Yana Valachovic: You-

Scott Hammond: Kind of

Yana Valachovic: … you had me confined.

Scott Hammond: You're right. That doesn't even count.

Yana Valachovic: But I do love the Pistol River, 100%.

Scott Hammond: It's really cool. I like, upriver there's this, like, 20-foot deep green

Scott Hammond: hole.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Actually, I'd go, go Smith River, also not Humboldt.

Yana Valachovic: I'd go to Smith any d- Well, so I'm one of those people that I like to, like, work my way around the rivers based on temperature, you know?

Scott Hammond: Okay.

Yana Valachovic: And there's my early warm season.

Scott Hammond: I like that. That's pretty smart.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I like that.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah. South Fork Trinity. Great spots in the South Fork Trinity.

Scott Hammond: Oh, gorgeous.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Used to hike up there. Um, used to go to a ranch up there.

Scott Hammond: Um, uh, Dr. Holmes had a ranch-

Yana Valachovic: Mm

Scott Hammond: … which was really fun. We'd go to retreats. Anyway, that's another story for another day. Hey, this is where I'm gonna thank everybody. Thank everybody for, um, listening to 100% Humboldt, and, uh, you can subscribe. Uh, we have YouTube, we have podcast, uh, t- channels, and, uh, repost, share, subscribe. And, uh, thanks to all our sponsors. And thanks to you, thanks to you, Yana.

Scott Hammond: Thank you.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah. My pleasure.

Scott Hammond: Appreciate you being here.

Yana Valachovic: Yeah. Thanks to all listeners for listening.