#123. What Humboldt’s Homeless Services Are Really Facing | Anjali Browning

Scott Hammond: Ladies and gentlemen, friends and neighbors, it's Scott Hammond with the 100% Humboldt podcast on our Fourth of July weekend edition. Uh, 250 years old, uh, in our American experiment, with my new best friend, Anjali Browning. Hi.

Anjali Browning: Hi.

Scott Hammond: How's your day?

Anjali Browning: It's a good day.

Scott Hammond: It's a good day.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I- it's the best day I've had so far today. That was my father-in-law's thing. So tell me about you, Anjali. Who, who are you, and, uh, where do you come from, and all the things? And what do you do?

Anjali Browning: Well, you said this was gonna be easy.

Scott Hammond: Well-

Anjali Browning: Um, so who am I? Well, um, I live here in Eureka.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Um, but certainly doesn't define who I am.

Scott Hammond: That's true.

Anjali Browning: Um, I, uh, work in the homeless services industry, largely in the homeless services sector.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Anjali Browning: And, um, I, uh, am currently running a, um, a consulting firm, um, that, uh, w- it works to build capacity in, um…

Anjali Browning: Sorry.

Scott Hammond: In those organizations.

Anjali Browning: In… Yeah. So we're working to build capacity in nonprofits i- across Humboldt, but particularly for homeless services.

Scott Hammond: I love it.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I'm really, really impressed. I, I looked at your, your resume, and I'm going, "Oh, so you're an anthropologist, an, an applied anthropologist. What's that?"

Anjali Browning: Yeah. So, um, generally speaking, it's people who are working in the field, um, finding solutions to practical problems-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … usually-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … ideally. Um, one of the things that I found, uh, working in, um, field work was that it's pretty easy to find problems.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Problems are everywhere. Um, the hard part is

Anjali Browning: solutions.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: And the hard part is actually finding solutions that work.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Anjali Browning: And, uh, that's actually how I ended up getting into the work that I do now

Anjali Browning: because-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … um, I think I'm also a, a, a puzzle solver. I liked, I like challenges.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: And, um, actually, the way that I ended up in homeless services was, uh, the, the former exec- or the current executive director at Arcata House Partnership.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Uh, we had been on a city committee together.

Scott Hammond: Who is that?

Anjali Browning: Uh, Darlene Spohr.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

Anjali Browning: And, um, she, uh, challenged me with a question and about coming on board, and she said, you know, "It'll be the hardest work you ever love."

Scott Hammond: Wow, I like that.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. And it, and it, and it is.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Um, and I thought to myself, "Well, you know, I've always had thoughts about what could be done, um, for homelessness, but let's see if I could

Anjali Browning: put, uh,

Anjali Browning: put my, uh, my thoughts to work."

Scott Hammond: Good.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So let's talk about Arcata, um, Arcata House real quick. Um, it's sort of iconic, quintessential, and, uh, Jason Shay, my good friend and pastor, is on their board, and-

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … he always speaks very highly of it and her.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: So tell, tell me, uh, what's been your involvement there? What do they do for homeless populations?

Anjali Browning: Oh, goodness. Well, when I started with them, um, in, uh, let's see,

Anjali Browning: 2018-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … um, they were really, um, at a transition point. Um, they were, uh, I think it was about 17 staff at the

Anjali Browning: time.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: And, um, you know, had a, had an array of services, but, um, really during COVID was when a lot of the, uh, large funding came th- through for homeless services, and it became part of the national dialogue.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: And, um, and so that was a sort of an, uh, a, a, a weird opportunity, right-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … that, um, a lot of this funding came in. We were able to su- su- successfully get some programs off the ground, like the tent shelters or the, um, safe parking programs.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: There was a lot of willingness in the cities to take m- a little bit more risk, but also-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … there was more funding coming in, in to, um, to support these kind of newer projects and ideas.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Anjali Browning: Um, and so really it was sort of that that catapulted the organization to sort of a, a very different level.

Scott Hammond: And Arcata would be fertile ground for all that stuff-

Anjali Browning: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … 'cause they're, they're forward-thinking-

Anjali Browning: Very

Scott Hammond: … and progressive and-

Anjali Browning: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … let's, "Hey, let's get curious and try something new."

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So tell me about the, uh, I was reading about the, um, what did you call it? It's that safe zone, the parking-

Anjali Browning: Safe parking? Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, tell me, tell me what that is 'cause that had my interest.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. Um, so that was a pilot project with the city of Arcata.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Um, very forward-thinking, like you were saying. Um, it was the first one that was, uh, ever done in the county. Um, and the idea was basically to give people a place to safely

Anjali Browning: park-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … and deliver services to them on site.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: And, uh, that project actually did very well. Um, unfortunately, just the funding didn't get renewed, but, um-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … you know, it, it's obviously ideal to really just get people indoors.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Anjali Browning: Um, you know, but it was a good way to-

Scott Hammond: I like it. Short of that, it's creative workaround.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I live in my car, and I can shower there, and I'm safe, and-

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm. Yeah

Scott Hammond: … was it, was it by the transit center down by the ballpark?

Anjali Browning: No. Uh, p- actually, the tent shelters were done there.

Anjali Browning: Um-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … no, the safe parking program was, um, off Samoa Boulevard.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Nice.

Anjali Browning: Was at the old so- soilscapes.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, okay.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Which is probably an old logging deck-

Anjali Browning: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … back in the day.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. Well, it's right next to that little logging spot.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. So Arcata House, what do, what do they do? Uh, tell me about the services they provide.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. They have, uh-

Scott Hammond: Oh, before, before you do, I have to do my prop.

Anjali Browning: Oh.

Scott Hammond: It's, it's, it's very important that I do this. So Arcata, if I can get my point… There it goes. We're in Eureka. Arcata's up here on the northern side of the bay.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And we're, we're here. I live in McKinleyville. Um, and, uh, Nick lives in Eureka. Don't you, Nick? See, I broke the f- fourth or fifth wall there.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Anyway, so sorry to interrupt my question.

Anjali Browning: It's all right. Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Your answer.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Um-

Scott Hammond: Arcata House.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. So Arcata House has the full spectrum of homeless services, so that means they have everything from walk-in or outreach

Anjali Browning: services-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … um, shelter programs, and, um, and permanent housing.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Um, and they've done a lot of firsts in the county, for sure. Um, you know-

Scott Hammond: Tell, tell me some

Anjali Browning: Um, well, obviously those programs I just mentioned-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … the tent shelters and the safe parking, but also, um, the Project Roomkey when that launched, uh, during COVID.

Anjali Browning: Um-

Scott Hammond: Yeah, what's that?

Anjali Browning: So that was funded by the governor, uh, during COVID-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Anjali Browning: … to safely shelter people in place who had no shelter.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Anjali Browning: Um, and so basically it took, um… It funded putting people into hotels-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … um, to shelter in place.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Anjali Browning: Um, and, uh, actually, the, the project we ran there was, um, quite successful. Um, we had a very high rate of placement out of that program.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Anjali Browning: Partly because, uh, around the same time, or actually sort of following up on R- Roomkey, or sorry, Homekey, was, um, the recognition that, okay, now where do we put all these people?

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Anjali Browning: And so the governor started Project Homekey.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: And that was to basically take these same hotels or other hotels, basic- fund, um, the rapid conversion of hotels into permanent housing.

Scott Hammond: Wow, so like Valley West out that way?

Anjali Browning: Yep. So the-

Scott Hammond: Arcata

Anjali Browning: … the Arcata House had one of those, the-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … the Grove.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Um, they also did the, the Kimiak Place, which is in Eureka.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm. And, um, so a lot of the people that s- were in Roomkey did transition to those… Sorry.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Were in, uh, H- Roomkey went into Homekey.

Anjali Browning: Sorry.

Scott Hammond: Into Homekey.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Okay. Got it.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Cool. And so, you know, when I think homeless, um, I think a lot of things, but I think of Betty Chin.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: So you were part of her world-

Anjali Browning: Oh, sure

Scott Hammond: … for a minute.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Tell me, tell me about that.

Anjali Browning: Yeah, I've worked with Betty over the years, um, working to transition people. You know, all, all the providers locally do-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … cooperate and, you know, sort of try to help problem solve on

Anjali Browning: people.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Um, so I'd, I'd known her for quite some time through that process.

Anjali Browning: And-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … um, uh, as I mentioned, about a year ago I started, um, working at, uh, on my own in consulting. I have a, a, a group of partners that we all work together. And, um, Betty had asked me to, to help her, um, on a couple of projects. Um, and she sort of just calls me when she-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Anjali Browning: … needs an extra hand or-

Scott Hammond: As I was talking to you off camera, we, um, she came over yesterday 'cause we found an old photo of her at, at a friend's house.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: And she was so touched, and she's always very gracious.

Anjali Browning: Oh, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. And I had a l- you know, I had her on the show. She's one of my first guests, and-

Anjali Browning: Oh, really

Scott Hammond: … you know, I had all these preconceived notions, as we all have.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And, uh, she dispelled like 97% of those. It's like, wow, you're an amazing person. I go, "Are you ever afraid to go out to a homeless encampment?" She goes, "Never. I g- I'm not afraid of anyone." I go, "Okay."

Anjali Browning: I can personally attest to that. Um, you know, before I ever met Betty I'd heard about Betty, right?

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Everybody's heard about Betty.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Anjali Browning: Um,

Anjali Browning: and, uh, m- not too long ago, actually this last winter, um, I had been working with her on some things, and I-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … I'd heard that she didn't have, um, some staffing for that night's winter shelter.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Because I, most people don't realize she's still there for them, and she-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Anjali Browning: … sleeps right there, or, you know.

Scott Hammond: She does, right on the spot, right?

Anjali Browning: She does. Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Anjali Browning: Um, and, uh, so I said- … "Well, you know, Betty, you should've told me. You know, let's… We're always here to help," right?

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: So I went over and, you know, sat at the desk and watched some people, and pretty soon I recognized some people that, you know, I remember from other places that I've worked.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

Anjali Browning: Uh, a particular person that, um, I know even police don't really like to engage, 'cause that person tends to be pretty, um, uh, escalated and-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Anjali Browning: … um, gets physical, and I was surprised to see him there.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: And, uh, he was very peaceful, s- sleeping in his bed and-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … he started to get up, and he, you know, she was just coming the other way, and he said, "I, I'm gonna move over here." She goes, "No. You stay there." And then he said, "Okay."

Scott Hammond: Thank you.

Anjali Browning: And then laid down.

Scott Hammond: Thank you, ma'am.

Anjali Browning: And I was just in awe, right, that people seemed to really-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Anjali Browning: … understand, you know, she's… It's, it's Betty's way, right?

Anjali Browning: And-

Scott Hammond: And you better obey.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: The nice lady.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: But she does amazing work for them, and I think that they know that.

Scott Hammond: She's telling me that she, um, she puts up with a lot, and then she has a limit, and then it, they're done.

Scott Hammond: Then-

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … if they're not responding and it's not working out, then she lets them know.

Anjali Browning: She definitely holds people accountable.

Scott Hammond: That's good. I think that we should all do that a little bit.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: A little bit better. Maybe without the shame piece, which is a whole nother topic.

Anjali Browning: Without a doubt.

Scott Hammond: Now, I heard that she went to Rome.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: And got audience with Pope Bob.

Anjali Browning: I did hear that. Um, I don't know if I'm at liberty to share it, but

Anjali Browning: I-

Scott Hammond: Okay

Anjali Browning: … but I, uh-

Scott Hammond: It's beautiful

Anjali Browning: … I think, uh, it's, it's quite a moving story.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: I think it was a real, uh, pilgrimage for her.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: And, um, she's so modest. She doesn't really wanna,

Anjali Browning: you know-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Anjali Browning: … brag about these things, but how many of us-

Scott Hammond: No

Anjali Browning: … make it to-

Scott Hammond: Well

Anjali Browning: … Rome at all, much less-

Scott Hammond: Yeah, right.

Anjali Browning: And apparently he already had a copy of her book.

Scott Hammond: Oh, that's cool. That's really cool.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I should ask for that. I got to go to Florence last week.

Anjali Browning: Did you?

Scott Hammond: It's cool.

Anjali Browning: Oh, that's right. You told me right before.

Scott Hammond: It was way too crowded.

Anjali Browning: Oh, was it?

Scott Hammond: It was 90 degrees, and it was cool, but it was like, hmm. But mango gelato, that's the s- that's the key. And the t- and the truck stop coffee.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: The Italian espresso-

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … at a truck stop is better than you could find in America.

Anjali Browning: I bet.

Scott Hammond: It is.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: It's so good. Oh my gosh.

Anjali Browning: I bet.

Scott Hammond: These guys really know how to eat and drink. This is cool.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, so that was fun. Uh, so, uh, we'll come back to all of that in, in Southern Humboldt too.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: But first, let's hear about your, uh, you were raised in Napa City?

Scott Hammond: River City.

Anjali Browning: Yes.

Scott Hammond: Napa.

Anjali Browning: Napa. Napa River.

Scott Hammond: Napa River.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. Um-

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Tell me all about that and your youth. Where did you go to school? What'd you do?

Anjali Browning: Sure.

Scott Hammond: UCLA, that's cool.

Anjali Browning: Yeah, yeah. I've, um, been a lot of places, for sure. Um, yeah, I was born in Napa, Queen of the Valley Hospital.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: And, uh, grew up there until, um, th- through elementary school.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: When, when people hear you grew up in Napa, they think of what it is now. Of course, at that time it was mostly-

Scott Hammond: Just Napa

Anjali Browning: … pastures and dairy farms and, you know, there were wine- wineries, what they were out on the outskirts.

Scott Hammond: Right. Every-

Anjali Browning: That was kind of the thing you did when family came to town, you do a little-

Scott Hammond: Up in Rutherford and Calistoga and-

Anjali Browning: Yep, yep

Scott Hammond: … yeah.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. Um, and, uh, my grandparents were actually in Sonoma, so we were always-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Anjali Browning: … kind of back and forth between there, but-

Scott Hammond: Nice

Anjali Browning: … it wasn't the, quite the, um, elegant idea that you have of it now. It was pretty rural.

Scott Hammond: It's pretty b- bougie now.

Anjali Browning: Very bougie now.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. Well, yeah, my parents owned a house,

Anjali Browning: um, that they bought that backed up to the, uh, Silverado Country Club at

Anjali Browning: the time.

Scott Hammond: Oh, cool.

Anjali Browning: And again, that was just sort of an outskirts, wasn't something you knew about.

Scott Hammond: A golf course out there, yeah.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. And they, they sold the house when, when I was in elementary school-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … or finished elementary school. No, actually, it was earlier than that, um, before we moved to the river. But they, um, they, uh, thought they just made out like bandits 'cause they sold-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Anjali Browning: … the house for $100,000.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Anjali Browning: It was an acre-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Anjali Browning: … backing up to the country club. Can you imagine?

Scott Hammond: 100 grand.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. They thought, "Oh my God, I can't believe they paid that."

Scott Hammond: Score. Right.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: San Diego, where I grew up, a lot of the houses… I remember they used to advertise homes on TV-

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … for 19995 out in Poway and Escondido and-

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … Rancho Bernardo and East County, and I'm going, "Wow." And I was raised in the hood by my mom in an apartment, a little condo. And, um, now those homes are, you know, $2 million homes.

Scott Hammond: Just crazy.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Just same ones, maybe fixed up a little bit better, but yeah, it's funny how real estate blossoms. So you went to school in Napa.

Anjali Browning: I did.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Um, yep, we moved over to the river when I was probably third grade, and-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … so we spent a lot of time out on the river. My dad was really into sailing and-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Anjali Browning: … so we had a boat.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And then the river goes into the Delta?

Anjali Browning: It does.

Scott Hammond: And that's where… Okay, gotcha.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. And then so you'd go, go through, like, Vallejo and then-

Scott Hammond: Right

Anjali Browning: … out into the bay.

Scott Hammond: There's a lot of, lot of places to sail and boat, right?

Anjali Browning: Oh, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Yeah, yeah. Um, a lot of sloughs out there, too, not unlike here.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Um, there's a, there's a fairly good size bay there.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, but then when I was, um, well, actually, when I finished elementary school, we moved to, uh, the Bay Area.

Scott Hammond: Okay. What part?

Anjali Browning: Um, so I went to Los Altos High. Again, one of those things that sounds very fancy.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Um, but this was when Silicon Valley was just getting going, so.

Scott Hammond: It wasn't that big of a deal.

Anjali Browning: You know? Yeah. It wasn't that big of a deal.

Anjali Browning: But, um, but yeah. Um, so I went to Los Altos High and then went to Foothill College for a while, and you know, I didn't have a lot of pressure on me to-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … y- you know, get working right away, so.

Scott Hammond: Which Foothill? Is that in San Jose?

Anjali Browning: Mm, it would be just Out- Well, basically Los Altos-

Scott Hammond: Okay

Anjali Browning: … in the hills there.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

Anjali Browning: Very pretty campus. Not unlike CR, actually.

Scott Hammond: Oh, nice.

Anjali Browning: Kind of a similar vibe.

Scott Hammond: Then Stanford.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. Well, I didn't go to Stanford. But I did make it to UC later on.

Scott Hammond: Oh, that's cool.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: So you graduated high school in, in, in Los Altos?

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. And then, um, got a chance to do a, a study abroad through Foothill College.

Scott Hammond: Oh, wow.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm. So, um, I did that and then, uh, did a whole backpack

Anjali Browning: experience.

Anjali Browning: Um-

Scott Hammond: Oh, I wanna hear about that.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: You crossed the globe at 17?

Anjali Browning: Oh, yeah.

Scott Hammond: What? That's pretty brave.

Anjali Browning: You know, it didn't seem like it at the time.

Scott Hammond: Uh-huh.

Anjali Browning: I think I just didn't know enough to know.

Scott Hammond: Did you go with a group or a friend?

Anjali Browning: Um, well, I started with the study abroad. Um, actually it really happened 'cause of my mom.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Um, because my mom said, um, well, she kind of realized I was maybe a little aimless and a little not, you know, getting into some trouble, maybe didn't have the best friends in her mind.

Anjali Browning: Um-

Scott Hammond: Oh, you're hanging out with the stoners.

Anjali Browning: Oh, yeah. Well, not the stoners, but the punk rockers, and for her that was a little, you know-

Scott Hammond: Okay. Close enough.

Anjali Browning: Yeah, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Adjacent.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Or distant cousins.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. So, uh, she walked in one day with this newspaper and said, "Hey, there's this-"

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … uh, you know, study abroad program.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Anjali Browning: "Maybe you'd be interested, but you have to do a, you have to complete a quarter of, of school before you do that."

Scott Hammond: Oh.

Anjali Browning: And so, um, I said, "Sounded pretty interesting." So, um, it was a study abroad in London.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: And I actually had a friend that was living there already. And, um, and so I started there, got a, you know-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Anjali Browning: … the, what is it? The, um, Brit Rail pass and then the Eurail pass.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

Anjali Browning: And then-

Scott Hammond: Sure

Anjali Browning: … in those days it was also you could fly from, you

Anjali Browning: know, London or wherever to-

Scott Hammond: Amsterdam.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Cheap.

Anjali Browning: Just cheap, quick.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: So it was a-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Anjali Browning: … it was a great time.

Scott Hammond: Far out.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: What a great way to go.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. No cell phones.

Scott Hammond: So you were 17?

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Rad.

Anjali Browning: No, no cell phones.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Better that way.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: It's, it's kind of weird to imagine a world without the weird device-

Anjali Browning: I know

Scott Hammond: … trailing and reporting in and, God, what am I gonna w- Oh, how will I get… Uh, you'll ask somebody-

Anjali Browning: Yep

Scott Hammond: … or get a map.

Anjali Browning: Or you just had to wait till they got a message and called you back.

Scott Hammond: Or you'll wing it or make a phone call or do something.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Yeah, it was one of the m- really most amazing experiences of my life because, you know, I had a Eurail pass or a Brit Rail pass-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … or, you know, whatever, and a map, and just wake up and-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Anjali Browning: … decide where you're gonna go that day 'cause everything-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Anjali Browning: … was so accessible, you know?

Scott Hammond: Europe's so close.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Did you go to-

Anjali Browning: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … Eastern Europe too?

Anjali Browning: Not as much. I regret that. I would've liked to have done that.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Anjali Browning: Um, but I did go, you know, after there I went to, uh, India and Thailand and, you know, a handful of other places-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Anjali Browning: … in, in the East as well, but, um, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Still at 17? Did you turn 18 on the road?

Anjali Browning: I did turn 18.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Anjali Browning: Yes. Um, but, uh, you know, it was just a, such a different world. I, I think about now I got-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Anjali Browning: … I have a son who's 15 going on 16, and I couldn't imagine just cutting him loose.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Anjali Browning: I mean, I, you know, I have the cell phone just, you know, tracking him when he's-

Scott Hammond: Sure

Anjali Browning: … in Eureka, you know?

Scott Hammond: In the country called Eureka

Anjali Browning: Yeah, yeah. So,

Anjali Browning: um, yeah, that would be a-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Anjali Browning: … I can't even imagine it now, but it was just such a different time.

Scott Hammond: Oh, yeah.

Anjali Browning: Parents were different.

Scott Hammond: I, I was 10, 9, 10, 11, 12 years old going downtown San

Scott Hammond: Diego-

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … for the day. We'd get on the bus at 10:00 in the morning and go all day downtown, Balboa Park, and-

Anjali Browning: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … play and Jack in the Box downtown was a big treat, and the Spreckels Theater had a movie, and they had these things called arcades.

Anjali Browning: Yeah, I remember those.

Scott Hammond: And then you'd go to the vinyl store and look at the vinyl, like Nick's collection

Scott Hammond: over here. And it was just a, you know, Ferris Bueller's Day Off, and nothing ever happened. It was always cool.

Scott Hammond: It was-

Anjali Browning: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … never really… Maybe we were just stupid or just, you know, dumb, dumb luck. I, but it was like-

Anjali Browning: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … oh, different world.

Anjali Browning: Well, I also feel like we didn't have the same steady diet of, you know, fear factor around every corner, you know?

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Um-

Scott Hammond: True

Anjali Browning: … actually, I, um, in my house sometimes the, the news can be so bad, you know, that I-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … stop listening.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: And my son took on a habit of, uh, you know, now kids are all on their devices and, um-

Scott Hammond: Sure

Anjali Browning: … have their, um,

Anjali Browning: uh, like their feeds, right? And so-

Scott Hammond: Sure

Anjali Browning: … he's been finding all of the positive stories to tell me in the world.

Scott Hammond: Whoa.

Anjali Browning: And he just starts reading them to me. "Did you know?" And it's been such-

Scott Hammond: What a great guy

Anjali Browning: … yeah, and it's been such a breath of fresh air for me.

Scott Hammond: I bet.

Anjali Browning: Right? Just to hear, "That's right, there are good things happening in the world, and we need to focus on those."

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Yeah. I wanna, I wanna, I wanna ask what that feed is. I'll find out. I'll get it.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Chad will tell me.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Chad knows everything.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Um, no, I love that-

Anjali Browning: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … 'cause we, we stopped doing news probably early COVID.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: It, like early-ish. It just, like, kinda turned that feed off 'cause it's like, it's, it's the same story recycled again and again.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: It's like, and it's all crap, and everybody's going to hell in a handbasket, and life's horrible, don't you know?

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And then people start walking around acting like that. It's like, oh, wait, is there a correlation here?

Anjali Browning: Yeah, and you know, I was just having a conversation with somebody the other day

Anjali Browning: about, um, exactly that and how even, um, you know, stories that are on some of our local media, right, that the comment

Anjali Browning: sections-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … are just, you know, full of trolls and saying horrible things.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: You know, and so it's, it's… You almost want to avoid-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Anjali Browning: … reading anything anymore, and it kind of-

Scott Hammond: No, it's awful

Anjali Browning: … it, it tugs at our spirit, doesn't it?

Scott Hammond: Yeah. And if, to s- to hear and read some of the things, awful things that people

Scott Hammond: can say.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So hey, trolls, forget you, man.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Get out of here with your trolling, troll ways- … and your negativity, negative Debbie Downer, wah, wah. Anyway, um, that's kind of a pet peeve of mine, so I won't go there.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So, uh, y- so you, you toured the world-

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … and came back and went to UCLA? Or what happened next?

Anjali Browning: Oh my goodness. Um-

Scott Hammond: Oh, wait, before you do that.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: What were the three highlights of your tour around the r- globe? Three takeaways, just rando.

Anjali Browning: Wow.

Anjali Browning: Um, takeaways. One would be

Anjali Browning: how big the world is and yet how small.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Anjali Browning: Even at that time, without all the internet and everything-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Anjali Browning: … um, I was actually, actually, believe it or not, had a horrible time in Paris.

Anjali Browning: Um, and-

Scott Hammond: Believe it, yeah. Like one day, or was it a whole-

Anjali Browning: The rest of France, not a problem, but I, uh-

Scott Hammond: … the whole stay? Was it multiple days?

Anjali Browning: I w- yeah, it was a run of bad days, for sure.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Anjali Browning: I was staying in a hostel, had a bunch of my stuff stolen, and y- you know, just a bunch of things. And-

Scott Hammond: Bummer

Anjali Browning: … I was, and I was traveling on my own.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: And like I said, I just didn't know enough to know that, you know, I needed to be a little more aware of, uh-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … what's around me.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Um, but, uh, I was really defeated and, you know, almost, like, ready to just-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Anjali Browning: … give it up and go home.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Anjali Browning: It was a… I, I was pulling up in a taxi at night to this hostel. I was walking by, and I saw this guy sitting slumped over on a wall.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Anjali Browning: You know? And I thought, "That guy looks familiar."

Scott Hammond: Huh.

Anjali Browning: We knew each other from, from home.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Anjali Browning: And he had also been having a terrible time. He hadn't been able to eat 'cause everywhere he went, nobody would, uh, serve him

Anjali Browning: food.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. And so then-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Anjali Browning: … we ended up traveling together for a while.

Anjali Browning: But, uh-

Scott Hammond: Oh, wow

Anjali Browning: … so it was, um-

Scott Hammond: Small world after all

Anjali Browning: … small world after all, yeah. And, um, I feel like I've found that to be the case over and over again.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: It's, it's huge and then smaller than we think.

Scott Hammond: Then you see somebody in Amsterdam going, "Hey, what, what are you doing here?"

Anjali Browning: Yeah. Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Um, I think part of what also, uh, happened for me in that experience, um, and probably what my mom had an idea about when she suggested it,

Anjali Browning: um, it puts you in a, in a sense of perspective, uh, vis-à-vis the rest of the world. There's a lot of other life ways. There's a lot of other ways of viewing the world.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Um, and I, that's very much what led me towards anthropology eventually.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Um, you know, the, that appreciation-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Anjali Browning: … for how many different ways that we as humans have come to live in the world and see the world.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: And that ours isn't the only one, and it's not the right one. It's not the wrong one. It's just one.

Scott Hammond: Spain was very different from Italy, which was different from Marseille.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: It, it's like a whole different deal, man.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: The food.

Anjali Browning: And they all work.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Mallorca was different. It's like, oh, and, and there are people from all over the world doing the

Scott Hammond: different.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And it was, it was c- it was cool. People are gen-

Anjali Browning: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … generally friendly and speak when spoken to.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. Well, and I think that's sort of the, the third one

Anjali Browning: is, um- Understanding the value of diversity

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Anjali Browning: You know?

Scott Hammond: Not be afraid of it.

Anjali Browning: In so many ways.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, and there's a universal, um, ex- the journey is very

Scott Hammond: universal.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, it really is. Those are good. So when you got back, then what? Did you immediately go to Foothill or UCLA?

Anjali Browning: Um, not immediately to UCLA. Um, I… Boy, I gotta think about it for a second. Um, so after-

Scott Hammond: It was so long ago

Anjali Browning: Yeah. Well, I, I did, um, I stayed in India for a year.

Scott Hammond: Oh, right. I read that.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it was… And that was, again, so just part of that richening of my

Anjali Browning: own-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Anjali Browning: … worldview and, you know, learning different ways.

Scott Hammond: What part of India?

Anjali Browning: Um, well, I actually traveled around quite a bit, but then I did stay, uh, in an area just outside of, uh, what was then Bombay, now-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … um, Mumbai.

Scott Hammond: Wow. And an ashram, is that how you say it?

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Is that like a farm or a commune?

Anjali Browning: No, um, it's, well, it's like a, you could say a retreat center or something else.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: But, um, but I was studying particularly.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: It's like Benjamin Button or something.

Anjali Browning: Kind of, yeah.

Scott Hammond: You were, like, on tour.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I love it.

Anjali Browning: Well, you know, I think I also got it from my dad.

Anjali Browning: Um-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Anjali Browning: … my mom had the original inspiration of me going.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: But my dad, he was the one with the wanderlust and-

Scott Hammond: Ah

Anjali Browning: … very much a, a adventuring spirit.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: And, um, so when he was basically that same age, around

Anjali Browning: 17-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … he, his family, um, decided to spend a year in Europe.

Scott Hammond: Oh.

Anjali Browning: They came from money, so you know-

Scott Hammond: Sure

Anjali Browning: … they could do things like that. Um, my family didn't have the same money-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … but, you know, so we didn't-

Scott Hammond: Send a backpack

Anjali Browning: … quite do it like that. But, but yeah, they spent a year, um, traveling abroad and, um-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … and so that was his last year of high school was basically doing that.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: And so I think that that, all of those stories and experiences

Anjali Browning: really-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … you know.

Scott Hammond: I had a number of friends from Humboldt State that did that, and were able to go for a year or six months-

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … and just backpack and hitchhike and Eurail and do the whole thing.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. Well, and I think because there it's also so easy.

Anjali Browning: I mean-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Anjali Browning: … it's, it's almost just the, the, the national kind of default, that's what you do.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Anjali Browning: Right?

Scott Hammond: Right.

Anjali Browning: And so everywhere we went, I shouldn't say everywhere, 'cause obviously Paris was different, but-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … there were so many places that, you know, you just get off the train and somebody's right away, "Oh, do you know where to go? Do you know what…" And then, and it was just-

Scott Hammond: Right. Right

Anjali Browning: … very genuine, you know?

Scott Hammond: Wanna hear a funny train story on the way to Paris?

Anjali Browning: Yes.

Scott Hammond: So, uh, my son Jesse and, and daughter-in-law lived in Utrecht,

Scott Hammond: um-

Anjali Browning: Mm

Scott Hammond: … Netherlands, south of Amsterdam. So we're on the train going to Belgium to Ghent, and somehow we got on a Eurostar. It's red and it's fast, and it's packed full of people. And they're having a good time, and the guy comes, gets our ticket. He goes, "You're supposed to be way on the… Rotterdam. You're s- you're supposed to be way over there. What… How did you get on this train?" And he goes, "You have to get off this train." I go, "And now we go into old, dumb, and American

Scott Hammond: mode." Sort of. But, but, but a- and, you know, it, and the train was packed. It was on its way to the Olympics last summer.

Anjali Browning: Oh.

Scott Hammond: And, um, fortunately the next stop was Ghent in Belgium where we were getting off, and it worked out good, but that was our dumb American, "How, how did you even make it on this train, dude?" story. "What, what are you doing here?"

Anjali Browning: Well, and the thing is most people there will speak three or four languages, right?

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: And we're the only ones that are kinda, you know, expecting everybody to speak

Anjali Browning: English.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, I wish I would've tried a little harder in, uh, Spain to speak Spanish, 'cause I could do a little bit. But, um, yeah, to make the, I think to make the effort's charming, and I think they appreciate it-

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … a little. So anyway. But yeah, in Netherlands it's funny 'cause people, uh, the, the Dutch probably speak better English than many Americans I know.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Super articulate.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And different, also a different culture, you know?

Scott Hammond: Game face, tunnel vision, and then, "Hey, I'm lost," and then they become human, and they go, "Hey, well, let me see if I can help you."

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: And so it's just kind of a different, a whole different deal. So leading to U- UCLA-

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … um, did you do the five years in Mexico after college?

Anjali Browning: Um, actually I started there, uh, while I was doing my graduate

Anjali Browning: work.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

Anjali Browning: Um, 'cause that's where I did my field work.

Scott Hammond: So what'd you study at UCLA?

Anjali Browning: Anthropology pretty much all the way through.

Anjali Browning: Um-

Scott Hammond: Nice

Anjali Browning: … I had a concentration in history and did a lot of, um, political economy kind of studies.

Scott Hammond: Did you live right in Westwood?

Anjali Browning: I did. Well, um, yes, part of the time.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Um, it's w- it's expensive. Um, but so yeah, generally on the west

Anjali Browning: side, but-

Scott Hammond: Nice. You ever been to the Getty Museum?

Anjali Browning: Oh, yeah. And the, the old one and the new one.

Scott Hammond: Oh, you're super cool.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Oh, the new one's so cool.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And it's free, but it's 20 bucks to park, but hey, bargain. It's 20 bucks to do anything in LA.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And yeah, we got, we've been a couple times. It's really amazing.

Anjali Browning: Yeah, it's an impressive facility for sure.

Scott Hammond: Quite a collection.

Anjali Browning: And the tram going all the way up.

Scott Hammond: Tell us about the old Getty. That's in, that's over at the beach, right?

Anjali Browning: Yep. Mm-hmm. Kind of on the, well-

Scott Hammond: Mal- Malibu?

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm. It's all kind of collapsing there now, but-

Scott Hammond: Uh-huh

Anjali Browning: … yeah.

Scott Hammond: That's supposed to be an amazing place too.

Anjali Browning: Beautiful. Completely different.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Anjali Browning: The whole-

Scott Hammond: How'd you like LA?

Anjali Browning: You know, it's funny, so many people say, "Oh, how could you live in LA?" I actually liked LA, but to me it has a lot to do with what

Anjali Browning: I'm doing.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: And so I liked what I was doing.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: And I had a group of people that I was interacting with and-

Scott Hammond: Do you have to commute a lot?

Anjali Browning: Um, well, even to go a short distance is commuting a lot.

Scott Hammond: It's a lot.

Anjali Browning: So.

Scott Hammond: The, the point of not liking LA, yeah.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I like it. I don't mind going.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. It's, it's funny 'cause I went back to, um, I mean, I go periodically, but, um, I hadn't been in a long time, and then, um, I wanna say 2018, '19, something like that, we went down to, to LA.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: And I, I couldn't believe how much it had changed. You know? So like-

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Anjali Browning: For particularly like Santa Monica area and the-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Anjali Browning: … promenade and… I mean, it's very, very pretty, but it doesn't have the same kinda life that I feel-

Scott Hammond: Right

Anjali Browning: … like it had maybe

Scott Hammond: Marina del Rey was really, yeah.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, we got married at Port's O'Call, a wedding chapel in, um, San Pedro Harbor-

Anjali Browning: Uh-huh

Scott Hammond: … 100 years ago.

Scott Hammond: And, um, yeah, it was all smaller. And then-

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … her- Joni's dad lived in Torrance, so we'd go up to Hermosa-

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … and Redondo-

Anjali Browning: Yep

Scott Hammond: … and ride the bikes all the way up to Marina del Rey and back.

Scott Hammond: And-

Anjali Browning: That's a ride.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, it was fun.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, because the beaches were all really… It's always nice and warm. And, and you're right, the pa- it's a pain in the butt to drive anywhere.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I lived sort of, um, Marina del Rey adjacent-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … and, um, would have to commute up to the campus, and it's, it's only a few miles, but,

Anjali Browning: you know.

Scott Hammond: An hour.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Well, and then there's parking, so.

Scott Hammond: And then there's parking.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. And that co- then that costs money.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: So I got pretty proficient with the buses.

Scott Hammond: So did you do your doctorate work there too?

Anjali Browning: I did.

Scott Hammond: Nice.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Anthropology?

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Imagine that.

Anjali Browning: Yeah, I kinda went in with a focus.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: It, it sounds like it.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Were you gonna teach with that, or what, what were you, what was your intention?

Anjali Browning: You know, I don't know if I had a specific thing in mind. I just knew I really liked it.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Um, and I did do a little bit of teaching.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Um, and then I got a, I did get a postdoc down at San Diego, at, down at

Anjali Browning: UCSD.

Scott Hammond: Ah. My hometown.

Anjali Browning: And, yeah. Yeah, so I was there for about a year.

Anjali Browning: But um-

Scott Hammond: Did you live in La Jolla?

Anjali Browning: No.

Scott Hammond: Oh.

Anjali Browning: I couldn't. It was too high-rent district.

Scott Hammond: You call it La Jolla, just for fun.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Are you from La Jolla? Come on, man.

Anjali Browning: No, I lived in North Park, which is a fun area.

Scott Hammond: Oh, my dad lived there-

Anjali Browning: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … for a while.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. Very-

Scott Hammond: North Park's cool.

Anjali Browning: It's a fun, fun, fun area.

Scott Hammond: There are a lot of street fairs there that we, we attended-

Anjali Browning: They do

Scott Hammond: … when it was fun.

Anjali Browning: Yeah, they do.

Anjali Browning: Um, but, uh, yeah, I, you know, I went back to college. You know, I did a little bit of here and there college. I actually even went to CR for a little while, um, probably when I was 20 or something.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Um, but, um, I didn't really have a specific, you know, idea of what I wanted to do-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … and I wasn't particularly pushed to. I just was generally a pretty capable person and-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … it always seemed like other people had better things for me to do, you know?

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: I didn't have that drive.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Um, and I had a pretty significant life event. Um, my, uh, partner at the time passed away-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Anjali Browning: … um, from cancer, and I was 26.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Anjali Browning: And yeah, and, um, it gives you perspective in your life.

Scott Hammond: It does.

Anjali Browning: And, um, I think it gave me a moment to think about-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Anjali Browning: … what am I doing here? What do I, what do I wanna do?

Anjali Browning: And-

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Yep

Anjali Browning: … I'd always been interested, and like I said, that interest started with all that traveling, and I just did it.

Scott Hammond: Nice.

Anjali Browning: Um, absolutely loved it, and, um, when I, uh, I, I'd gotten my postdoc… Or sorry, no, when I was doing my field research for the doctorate-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … um, I was, uh, living in Mexico and, um, met my husband there.

Scott Hammond: Ah.

Anjali Browning: Um, and, um, so that sort of is another life course change.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, I bet.

Anjali Browning: Um-

Scott Hammond: Where were you in Mexico?

Anjali Browning: In Oaxaca.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. It was pre-Coco though.

Scott Hammond: What'd you do there- … pre-Coco?

Anjali Browning: Very different now.

Scott Hammond: Seen that movie.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Sorry.

Scott Hammond: What'd you do there? Uh, just study?

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm. Well, yeah. Well, initially that, I was there to do my field work.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Um, and, uh, and then, uh, came back to finish my, my program, and then he came up to, to do a program. He got a master's in urban planning.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Anjali Browning: And so, um, actually at UCLA as well.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: So we kinda just both got on that-

Scott Hammond: That train

Anjali Browning: … trajectory. That train, yeah.

Scott Hammond: And now it's all a matter of record.

Anjali Browning: All a matter of record.

Scott Hammond: How long you guys been married?

Anjali Browning: Um, we are going on

Anjali Browning: 19 years.

Scott Hammond: Congrats.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: That's cool.

Anjali Browning: Is that right? It's 2026. No.

Scott Hammond: It is 2026. I know that part. I don't know the 19.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Cannot verify. So if you're just joining us-

Anjali Browning: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … my new best friend, Anjali Browning, uh, Browning, and I'm, um, delighted. I mean, I have, I've never talked to somebody who's traveled so much, so, um, look at you go. B- been there, done

Scott Hammond: that. So, uh, let's talk about SoHum here in a minute.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: I'm trying to think if we wanna… Oh, let's introduce the, uh… Do you like chocolate, per chance?

Anjali Browning: I mean-

Scott Hammond: A little?

Anjali Browning: … do you have to ask?

Scott Hammond: I don't. Um, hi, Joni. My wife Joni says there's no woman that does not like chocolate. And she could say it. I didn't say it.

Scott Hammond: It's not-

Anjali Browning: I like Joni already.

Scott Hammond: I just… Yeah, Joni's the black fig.

Anjali Browning: Oh, that's a fantastic one.

Scott Hammond: Personal favorite. And let's, uh, let's do the quiz, and then let's talk a little bit about, um, SoHum and how we can get ahold of you and shout-outs and how, how we could support the work that you do and maybe those that you do it for.

Anjali Browning: Sounds great.

Scott Hammond: A lot, a lot of agencies, right?

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: There's ways that we could participate by our, our time or treasure.

Anjali Browning: Absolutely.

Scott Hammond: And, you know, homelessness has been, you know, the three things, uh, housing, homelessness, and healthcare.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Uh, you, you're right on the main theme of this podcast, so it's, uh, it's a recurring

Scott Hammond: thing. And-

Anjali Browning: It's an important thing to focus on.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. And-

Anjali Browning: Affects everyone.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. And the answers, um, we'll get to, but let's have some fun first. Let's get you that black fig.

Scott Hammond: Ready?

Anjali Browning: Okay.

Scott Hammond: Okay. Anjali, for all the money, and the Dick Taylor chocolate bar, brought to you by Dick Taylor Chocolates, Eureka, California, right over there on the map.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: What was your best day

Scott Hammond: ever?

Anjali Browning: The day my son was born.

Scott Hammond: Ooh, nice. And he's four- 15 now?

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Oh, good answer. Why was that the best day?

Anjali Browning: Um, boy, that's an inexplicable feeling.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Um, yeah. Fir- hearing his first cry. There's so much anticipation waiting to know this being-

Scott Hammond: Right

Anjali Browning: … that's, you know.

Scott Hammond: This person.

Anjali Browning: And- Yeah. I, I mean, without a doubt, that takes-

Scott Hammond: I like that.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. You didn't have any trouble with that at all.

Anjali Browning: Nope.

Scott Hammond: Question number two for 10 points. Worst day ever?

Anjali Browning: Oh my goodness. I think I might've just had it.

Scott Hammond: Ah.

Scott Hammond: Not today.

Anjali Browning: No. Um, no, not today.

Scott Hammond: Oh, good.

Anjali Browning: Worst day ever. Wow. Um, probably, probably the day my mom died.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Anjali Browning: It was a bad one. It was hard with my dad, but there's something about losing your

Anjali Browning: mom-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Anjali Browning: … and just what she does for your world.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: As, and I mean, I was thankful that I was able to be with her, right? But, um, just in terms of the life shift that that-

Scott Hammond: Yeah. The permanency of death is really interesting.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. We got to talk about death a little bit yesterday. It was really good.

Anjali Browning: Mm.

Scott Hammond: It's really, um, kind of a refreshing topic, although hard to talk about, 'cause then it brings a lot of perspective.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And, and at 66, I could attest to the fact that I'm, I'm in my autumn years, and you know, that is, nobody gets out of here alive.

Anjali Browning: Well, you know, one, I don't know if I'm allowed, if we're still doing the quiz, but, uh, if I can elaborate, um-

Scott Hammond: Please, we'll come back to question number three in a minute.

Anjali Browning: Okay. Um, in a way I misspoke about it being the worst day. Um, it was maybe the most painful day.

Scott Hammond: Painful.

Anjali Browning: In, in that I, you know, that loss. But at the same time, one of the things that I really fell in love with about the Mexican culture is Dia de Muertos and the idea that-

Scott Hammond: Right

Anjali Browning: … um, you know, this, this kind of close connection to the, to the people that you've lost-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Anjali Browning: … that aren't really lost.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Um, and um, you know, that there's this embrace of death as part of life.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: And, um, that's something that has always resonated

Anjali Browning: with me.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: And I think that I've, I've had the honor of being with a number of people in their last moment, and um, it is an honor.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Oh, it's a whole next level.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And Los Bagels in Arcata and Eureka-

Anjali Browning: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … located, and, and Cal Poly, they celebrate that every

Scott Hammond: year.

Anjali Browning: They do.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Dennis has been a very good Peter.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And they, um, yeah, it's cool. Hey, question number three.

Anjali Browning: Okay.

Scott Hammond: What do you find fulfilling in your life?

Anjali Browning: Hmm. Well, I probably work too much.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Anjali Browning: So I would say, um, I probably need to find better work-life balance.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Um, so I would say I do find my work fulfilling.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: But being with our loved ones really matters more.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. It's funny, I, I can work and it's fulfilling until I cross over into the non-fulfillment.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: It's like, "Oh, I don't, I don't like what I'm… I, I, I've had enough, and I need to find other fulfillments."

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: It's, it's distracting.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Takes a lot of your, your focus and your energy, but-

Scott Hammond: Yeah, and I think work-

Anjali Browning: … you need to find other parts.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. I, I, I prefer to think of it as work-life synchronicity 'cause-

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … sometimes family needs to take full priority.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And it, and it can shift, and it's okay, and just to know when to shift it is the trick. Hey, question number four. What do you find soul-crushing?

Anjali Browning: Taxes.

Scott Hammond: Taxes? Okay. Haven't gotten that one yet.

Scott Hammond: Um,

Scott Hammond: I like that.

Scott Hammond: I had to… Now that you mention it, you're right. As a business owner-

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … um, there's tax bills that come due. They just do.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: There's quarterlies and payroll tax and all that.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: It's like, "Oh, wow, this is a real pain in the butt."

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Oh.

Anjali Browning: I definitely have a lot of avoidance around it.

Scott Hammond: I have a fifth employee, employee at my place. He's another team member at Scott Hammond State Farm.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: His name is Uncle. His last name is Sam. And so Sam is like another team member. Problem is he doesn't do much for me, I don't think. Maybe national defense. I mean, uh, maybe they're protecting me from something. But anyway, not here to gripe, here to be encouraging. There is no condemnation.

Scott Hammond: All right. For all the bonuses and all the chips, who are you and what do you want?

Anjali Browning: You told me you weren't gonna give me tough questions.

Scott Hammond: That's easy. The question's really easy.

Anjali Browning: No. No. Um-

Scott Hammond: The answers are tough.

Anjali Browning: Who am I and what do I want?

Anjali Browning: Um, I was actually, I kinda thought you were gonna ask something like this, and I was thinking about it this morning.

Anjali Browning: And I think if I were to give one word to myself, it would be undaunted.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Anjali Browning: Um, I take on big challenges, probably too big sometimes.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Um, and I think I'm always trying to climb that hill.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I like that. That's good. I like that. That's-

Anjali Browning: I don't know if I'm ever gonna find that f- that final puzzle piece though.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. That's who you are. What do you want? What do you want to see happen?

Anjali Browning: I want to see happen… I wanna see happen

Anjali Browning: a real qualitative commitment to change.

Scott Hammond: Ooh, I like it.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: That's a powerful answer. And with that, a powerful black fig bar. 72% Tanzania dark chocolate with black fig.

Scott Hammond: Congrats. Ooh, let's ring the bell.

Anjali Browning: Has anybody failed the quiz?

Scott Hammond: Do they what?

Anjali Browning: Has anybody failed the quiz?

Scott Hammond: No one yet. No, not yet. Good question. Um, so let's go back to SoHum and your new, your newest-

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … um, projects. Um, Southern Humboldt, which lies in the south of Humboldt County

Anjali Browning: It does

Scott Hammond: Right in here

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: Kind of, uh, down the 101

Anjali Browning: Yep

Scott Hammond: Not the 299, but down here

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: Um, lots of, um, still a lot of timber and a lot of farms and-

Anjali Browning: Absolutely

Scott Hammond: … still very sparsely populated and kinda depressed now post-cannabis, right?

Anjali Browning: Very. Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Definitely is, uh, economically struggling. Businesses are having a hard time.

Scott Hammond: And ca- post-cannabis, has, has that added to our, the Trimmigrants that have become jobless and stayed a- around Humboldt? Is there any correlation-

Anjali Browning: You know, I think there's-

Scott Hammond: … is there any science around that?

Anjali Browning: There's some. I mean, I don't know that there's anybody that's actually quantified, you know, how many people are-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … post-Trimmigrants that are now homeless. But to be honest, uh, so I've been working down there with SoHum Housing Opportunities and,

Anjali Browning: um,

Anjali Browning: sorry, um, also a little bit with, uh, Redwoods Rural 'cause they had a partnership with Redwoods Rural-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … um, several other organizations. Um, most of what I'm seeing of the people that they're serving are pretty long time, grew up in Humboldt, you know-

Scott Hammond: Okay

Anjali Browning: … grew up in Southern Humboldt, and so they're, um, not real interested in leaving Southern Humboldt.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Um, all of them, you know, mo- for the most part do have family nearby. I mean, there's, there's some.

Scott Hammond: Some roots, yeah.

Anjali Browning: It's, you know, there's some people that don't have the long-term roots-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … but most of them really are.

Scott Hammond: I imagine things are pretty tough down there. I know business-wise, Garberville's supposed to be kind of a mess and-

Anjali Browning: It is tough. They don't have, um, nearly enough business to support the local-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Anjali Browning: … businesses, for sure.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. So tell me what you guys do down there.

Scott Hammond: What's-

Anjali Browning: Yeah. Well, um, I started working with them, uh, just about a year ago. Um, I had con- not really officially consulted, but when they were first applying for this, the current grant that they have-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … um, you know, I had given them a little bit of advice and-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Anjali Browning: … and whatnot. But, um, uh, yeah, about a year ago, Patty Ray, who was, uh, the person who was really kinda spearheading that organization and that effort, uh, and J- Jimmy Derschlag, and a number of other people down there that, um, really put in a lot of heart and soul-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Anjali Browning: … and, um, built a, uh, an organization.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Um, a lot of that came up through, uh, COVID.

Scott Hammond: Uh-huh.

Anjali Browning: Um, they had gotten one of those, uh, Roomkey projects I was mentioning

Anjali Browning: earlier. Um, and so they, but they just, you know, they didn't have the same amount of resources or other things that we have here in North County, and even here this is-

Scott Hammond: Sure

Anjali Browning: … pretty, uh, limited. Um,

Anjali Browning: and, um, they had a, a, a pretty strong partnership with Redwoods Rural and, um, worked, uh, to, to serve people there. They were doing, mm, food outreach and other things apart from the Roomkey project.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Anyway, um, about, uh, what is it? 2024, end of 2024 into '25, they, they were awarded, um, a, a large state, um, grant for, um, the Encampment Resolution Funds, which are to take specific camps working with Caltrans or-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … sheriff or whoever else is doing the abatement to resolve those camps, um, meaning to quickly place people that are in those camps into, um, shelter or housing.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

Anjali Browning: Um, or to work with them directly on site. And the idea with these projects is that you're not just moving people

Anjali Browning: along, so-

Scott Hammond: Right

Anjali Browning: … and you're working with all of the local, um, partners to ensure that they're not just getting kicked out and then-

Scott Hammond: Right

Anjali Browning: … spread around, right? And then you can't– it's even harder to get them the services. So-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … um, so they got this, uh, quite large, uh, grant to do this project. Sorry.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

Anjali Browning: But they reached out because, um, they had kind of gotten it to a certain point, but, um, really needed more expertise in, in terms of how to actually launch these and run these programs.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: And so, um, I started working with them, and they had hit some roadblocks with the, mostly with the construction. Um, they were funded to do, uh, street outreach,

Anjali Browning: um, uh, renovate the, the Garberville Grange.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Anjali Browning: Um, and they purchased the Garberville Gra- uh, Grange-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Anjali Browning: … and then they also purchased an adjoining property. And, uh, they were just hitting some issues with the construction. It's just, it was a bigger undertaking because they bought that second property and needed to merge it, and so it turned into just a much

Anjali Browning: bigger-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Anjali Browning: … administrative project. And so they were really kind of stalling on getting their shelter open.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Anjali Browning: So, uh, luckily, we were able to strike some, um, great relationships there, um, when I, uh, actually Patty initially s- made some of these relationships, and then I just kind of, uh, rode the wave in a sense.

Anjali Browning: But, um, so what we did was we very quickly, it was, it was coming up on the winter, um, and they were worried about getting people indoors-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … uh, this last, uh, fall, you know, November.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

Anjali Browning: And, um, so we, we worked out a relationship with one of the local hotels to quickly, um, shift the shelter operations there.

Scott Hammond: Oh.

Anjali Browning: And, uh, they gave us a, a great price, and we were able to-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Anjali Browning: … and the, the, the family there, um, I wanna give a shout-out to, to Ken, um, who owns the, the Johnstons. That's where we've been.

Scott Hammond: Hi, Ken.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. Just-

Scott Hammond: Good job, Ken

Anjali Browning: … just amazing person-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … um, and has been a tremendous asset to making this happen. Um, anyway, so, uh, we were able to, uh, quickly transition, uh, a large pr- uh, number of their population into this shelter. They had already housed a few people-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … with, with, uh, housing vouchers. Um, and then, um, we started shifting a few of their other projects. So we, uh, then were able to… They needed to spend out, um, some of their voucher money, but the problem is there's not enough housing-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Anjali Browning: … to put those vouchers on. So we were able to work out another, uh, relationship with another hotel, actually just across the street with the Lone Pine. Um, so shout out to Anil. He's also been, uh, really wonderful-

Scott Hammond: Anil?

Anjali Browning: … in this process. Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Hey, Anil.

Anjali Browning: Yep. And, um- So we were able to work with the state and with the, the county building department-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … uh, to get permission to use, uh, the rapid rehousing funds, which is a very specific type of funding-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … uh, to, to master lease the hotel.

Scott Hammond: Oh.

Anjali Browning: And then use that as, uh, basically leasing units-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … to individuals as housing, which is, uh, this is a very unusual, s- um, arrangement because usually you have to do a purchase.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Because if you're gonna change the use from hotel to residential, then you have to go through the conversion, it's very expensive. You have to go through-

Scott Hammond: In this case you didn't.

Anjali Browning: Well, we have. Uh, again, shout out to the building department.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Anjali Browning: Um, they've been fantastic. Ch- Chief Ingersoll, uh, chief among them. Um, but he, um-

Scott Hammond: What's his first name?

Scott Hammond: Is it Keith?

Anjali Browning: Keith Ingersoll. Thank you. Yes. I had a blank.

Scott Hammond: Keith's in the planning department?

Anjali Browning: Yes.

Scott Hammond: I know Keith. Hey, Keith. I miss, I miss your dad, Norm. His dad is Norm. We used to go to church with him.

Anjali Browning: Oh, wonderful.

Scott Hammond: Bu- also a builder, but yeah, Keith runs planning.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And he made this happen.

Anjali Browning: Yes.

Scott Hammond: Keith Ingersoll, ladies and gentlemen. The man, the myth, the legend.

Anjali Browning: Wonderful. Yes. I'm, I'm-

Scott Hammond: It's cool

Anjali Browning: … so thankful. Um, basically they did something kind of innovative. They said, "You know what? We don't really care how you're gonna pay for it as long as you don't actually change the use."

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Anjali Browning: And so under certain parameters, they allowed us to, to move forward with this. Um-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Anjali Browning: … and so it created almost what would be like a home key light. So instead of-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Anjali Browning: … having to do a purchase and renovation-

Scott Hammond: Right

Anjali Browning: … and conversion, um… And it was a unique facility that allowed us to do this, the type of setup.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Because all the units already had kitchen and microwave, and then there was a main house that they could use as sort of a shared facility. So it, it, the project, or the, the, the, the site itself lent itself to this idea.

Scott Hammond: And the people were stoked.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: And-

Scott Hammond: Is it mostly men or women that would use it, i- in this case, that

Scott Hammond: property?

Anjali Browning: You mean in terms of the, the participants?

Scott Hammond: Uh, p- yeah, with the population.

Anjali Browning: Um, it's definitely more men than women, but a lot of women.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Um, I would say we're probably running about 35 to 40% women.

Scott Hammond: Okay. And Arcata House, would they do more women than children?

Anjali Browning: I'd say it's about the same.

Scott Hammond: About the same?

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

Anjali Browning: I mean, they, they, they have it larger, so they serve a larger number of people.

Scott Hammond: Gotcha.

Anjali Browning: Um, and they have dedicated family shelter and, you know, other kinds of shelters.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: So-

Scott Hammond: Gotcha

Anjali Browning: … so, you know, uh, SHOW, SoHum Housing Opportunities, they're just really getting off the ground as a, you know, a funded organization.

Scott Hammond: So before we talk about your legacy and who you wanna be remembered as and b-

Scott Hammond: by and for-

Anjali Browning: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … um, what, if we wanted to send treasure and time to, who, who would you, how would, w- who would you shout

Scott Hammond: out? I mean, your organization-

Anjali Browning: Uh

Scott Hammond: … I mean, could probably use… Do you guys use volunteers?

Anjali Browning: Oh, so for, for our consulting group, we don't necessarily utilize volunteers, although it probably in the future we will.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: We're just, we're all so very new.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Um, but certainly SoHum Housing Opportunities needs volunteers, 100%. Um, there's, the-

Scott Hammond: Shout out to that. Where do we find that?

Anjali Browning: They have a website.

Scott Hammond: On the web?

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: They're on the web?

Anjali Browning: They are on the web.

Scott Hammond: What, what are they called? What's the address?

Anjali Browning: Uh, so it's, uh, SoHum Housing Opportunities. Just type that one in the Google.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And they'll find it.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Or chat.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Okay. And how do we get ahold of you?

Anjali Browning: Um, so we-

Scott Hammond: Or support you guys.

Anjali Browning: Oh, I love it. So we are, uh, Rise Over Run Strategies, but it's just rorstrategies.com.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: And I say that, but probably if people go to it right now, it might not be active.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: So working on that.

Scott Hammond: Working on that.

Anjali Browning: But we do have the domain.

Scott Hammond: What does ROR mean again?

Anjali Browning: Rise Over Run.

Scott Hammond: Rise Over Ren.

Anjali Browning: Rise Over Run.

Scott Hammond: Run.

Anjali Browning: So-

Scott Hammond: Rise Over Run.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

Anjali Browning: It comes from, um, actually my very first anthropology class.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Um, so Rise Over Run is, is the, um, y- like when you're building a staircase or a slope, it's the, it's the-

Scott Hammond: Oh, right

Anjali Browning: … rise to run ratio.

Scott Hammond: Right. Right.

Anjali Browning: Um, and then-

Scott Hammond: Otherwise, you have really steep stairs.

Anjali Browning: That's right.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: You gotta get the right proportions.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: And-

Scott Hammond: Or you have really long stairs that never end-

Anjali Browning: That's right

Scott Hammond: … and never get there.

Anjali Browning: Yep. And so the idea, obviously there's a, a housing component to this.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Right? Um, but, uh, the idea is that, you know, you have to have the right ratio to-

Scott Hammond: I love it

Anjali Browning: … for healthy growth.

Scott Hammond: Nice. I like that.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So, um, what do you wanna be remembered for?

Anjali Browning: What do I wanna be remembered for? Mm, doing really good work.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: Um,

Anjali Browning: hmm. Being a good human.

Scott Hammond: I like it.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. I get the sense that you are that.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: I leave places better than I got 'em.

Scott Hammond: Well, you got a heart for homeless people and kids, the m- moms and dads and the humans that are there.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: You know, it's, it's, it's so easy, I think, on this side of the desk to, "Hey, the homeless." You know, it's, "Hey, the Giants fans."

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: You know? Or World Cup soccer fans. It's like, no, they're people. And every one of them, I'm telling you this, every– I know every one of them has a different story.

Anjali Browning: Well, absolutely.

Scott Hammond: You know? Radically different. And, and, you know, we love Zach. He's our home- our, our, the guy that's homeless behind my s- store.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: And Zach's just a wonderful human being.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And he's, he's cool, and I'm sure I don't know his issues. I, I'm not, not in my lane to ask. But, um, but I see Zach.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I see, I see him. And I, and, and I don't understand him, but I, I'm present with him and I get it. Um, so tell us more, um, real quick about what, what we can do as, as, as peop- as other humans.

Anjali Browning: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: And, and helping fellow humans. 'Cause I think everybody would like to do that. Everybody has a perspective that's, you know, probably incomplete at best. So what, what would you, what would you tell us? What could, what could you share with us to go, "Hey, here's how you can Maybe get, come on the field and play football with us.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Jump in the water. It's, the water's fine.

Anjali Browning: Well, you know, it's interesting. Um, homeless services and, and many other kinds of crisis services, um, particularly like rape crisis or, you know, domestic violence

Anjali Browning: services-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Anjali Browning: … they're, they're kinda for a lot of people, kinda uncomfortable topics. Like, we know they exist.

Scott Hammond: Totally.

Anjali Browning: Right?

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: But we're not real comfortable with them, or we all have a little bit of unease. Like, yeah, maybe I should do more. Maybe I should help more. Maybe I should-

Scott Hammond: Or hospice.

Anjali Browning: Right.

Scott Hammond: People are dying, what?

Anjali Browning: Yeah. Yeah. And, um, I think at the end of the day, it's about, it's about acceptance of what is. We're not gonna-

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Anjali Browning: We can't fix everything.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Right?

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: But we can make our small contributions-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … however that looks.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Anjali Browning: It's different for each person.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: And I think back to kind of what we were talking about earlier, you know, it's, it's so easy to become desensitized.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Right? We've, we're walking past so much all the time, and it's, it's exhausting, and there's so much need for help in so many different

Anjali Browning: ways.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: And we're all bombarded by those asks. And, you know, I would say look in your backyard. Look in, you know-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Anjali Browning: … to your, to your Zacks, right?

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Um, but-

Scott Hammond: Hi, Zack.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. Yeah. Um, I think acknowledging not looking away-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Anjali Browning: … and, you know, giving what you can.

Scott Hammond: I like that.

Anjali Browning: You know?

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: Uh, there's so much misunderstanding about, um, both homelessness and homeless services, and-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … y- you know, when, when Sohum, our show, first, uh, reached out to me, um, you know, and they were, uh, asking me to, to help, and I knew it was gonna be a, a heavy lift there.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Anjali Browning: There was a lot of work to do.

Anjali Browning: And, um, you know, it's,

Anjali Browning: it's, um… It's the easiest possible thing to do is care.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Anjali Browning: Right? And at this point I've interviewed and hired I don't know how many staff at this point –

Scott Hammond: Wow

Anjali Browning: … um, and trained a lot of people.

Anjali Browning: Um, and almost everybody comes in saying th- you know, their reason they're applying is because they care.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: And I'm not diminishing that whatsoever.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

Anjali Browning: You, you know, that's a baseline. You gotta care.

Anjali Browning: It's-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Anjali Browning: … just like with having a family, the easiest thing to do is love them.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Anjali Browning: We love them. The hard part-

Scott Hammond: Is living with them

Anjali Browning: … is living with them.

Scott Hammond: Those family people.

Anjali Browning: Absolutely. And so, you know, the same thing is true in this case. The hard part is learning what it means to help.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: And helping doesn't always look like-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Anjali Browning: … giving people everything they want.

Anjali Browning: I mean-

Scott Hammond: Right. Right

Anjali Browning: … of course, there's not enough. We, every, we need to provide more.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

Anjali Browning: Right? Um, but it, what, part of, part of the difficulty for people when they're, when they're starting to do this work is learning that it's not about a roof.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Anjali Browning: I mean, yes, we need more housing-

Scott Hammond: Sure

Anjali Browning: … 100%. We need more funding 100%.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: But without understanding the underlying issues that generate and perpetuate homelessness-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Anjali Browning: … we're not gonna make those changes.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, amen.

Anjali Browning: Yeah. And-

Scott Hammond: That's good

Anjali Browning: … you know, and for, for individuals who are, you know, uh, in that situation, rarely is it, um, just a house that they need.

Scott Hammond: Sure. Yeah. It's other things.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I love your answers. Let's start somewhere.

Anjali Browning: Thank you.

Scott Hammond: You know, start with, start in your backyard. That's really good 'cause we, um, I wanna go and have an opinion, get on Facebook, and just kinda share that, and it's like, "And I did something." And no, you were just one of the friends of the trolls.

Anjali Browning: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Trolling along and doing your, whatever that was. And it takes, you know, my dad used to say, "It takes money to buy whiskey." Which is, means action. Take, take, take a step, and I encourage everybody to do that.

Anjali Browning: Well, I just wanna build on that for a second because sometimes we want our giving, whether it's time or money, t- we're, we're attached to the result.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Anjali Browning: Right? We want it to go to something.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Anjali Browning: Meaning, you know, we want some outcome from it.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

Anjali Browning: And,

Anjali Browning: you know, like I said, this isn't something we're gonna fix overnight.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Anjali Browning: And so it's almost like don't, don't worry about picking the right thing. Just do the thing you can.

Scott Hammond: Get on the team and go.

Anjali Browning: Get on the team and go, yeah.

Scott Hammond: I love it. I wanna get on the team and go. Speaking of going-

Anjali Browning: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … thanks for being here.

Anjali Browning: Oh.

Scott Hammond: Appreciate you.

Anjali Browning: I'm so glad to be here.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, I love your heart toward the, all, all of it and all the people that are involved, and it's really cool. Hey, and if you're just joining us, uh, it's the end of the show. So you're really late. Um, thanks for joining us. Scott Hammond with the 100% Humboldt podcast located in Humboldt County, California. And thanks, Anjali, for being here.

Anjali Browning: Glad to be here.

Scott Hammond: And if, and if you wanna support us, you can do that too through, uh, time, well, through donations or a comment or subscribe today. And we're on all the platforms. We're on Access TV in Humboldt. We're on YouTube and, uh, and we're on everywhere. So, uh, that's what I know. Have a great day. Thanks for joining me.

Anjali Browning: Oh, thank you for having me.

Scott Hammond: All right, have a great day.

Anjali Browning: All right, you too.