Episode 90 · Jeff Woodke · August 24, 2025
Jeff Woodke traces the road from Humboldt to years of humanitarian work in Niger, where he and his family built projects around water, food security, land rights, and community development. He also reads a poem about captivity and memory, then talks through the night he was taken hostage and the long years that followed.
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What this episode covers
- Growing up in Fremont and coming to Humboldt in 1979 for school
- Studying wildlife at HSU and later earning a master's in environmental systems
- Work in Belize, Morocco, Niger, and across West Africa through YWAM
- Building relief and development projects with nomadic pastoralist communities
- Food reserves, drought response, herd recovery, and income diversification
- The 2016 kidnapping in Niger and the six-and-a-half-year captivity that followed
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Transcript
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Scott Hammond: Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls of all ages and friends near and far, it's Scott Hammond with the 100% Humboldt podcast. After a little sabbatical, here I am with my new best friend, Jeff Woodke.
Scott Hammond: Hi, Jeff.
Jeff Woodke: Hey, Scott. How you doing?
Scott Hammond: I'm well. It's good to see you.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: You've been out in the sun a little bit. You got a little tan going.
Jeff Woodke: Oh, yeah.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: It's summertime.
Scott Hammond: It's summer. It's river time.
Jeff Woodke: That's correct.
Scott Hammond: You said you guys are at the river. What, which, did you say Trinity?
Jeff Woodke: Oh, no.
Jeff Woodke: Smith.
Scott Hammond: Smith River, better.
Jeff Woodke: Much better.
Scott Hammond: Wild and scenic river.
Jeff Woodke: Yep.
Scott Hammond: We drove by it two– yesterday. We were coming back from Medford.
Jeff Woodke: Well, I was there yesterday, swimming.
Scott Hammond: I, w- I missed you.
Jeff Woodke: You didn't look hard enough.
Scott Hammond: You gotta seek deeper. Tell us, uh, the Jeff Woodke story in just a minute, but we're gonna do something unconventional with Nick's
Scott Hammond: approval.
Jeff Woodke: Wait a minute. You want me to tell you my whole story in just one minute or…
Scott Hammond: Uh, after a minute.
Jeff Woodke: Oh, okay.
Scott Hammond: After a minute of, uh… So we understand, uh, that you write poetry.
Jeff Woodke: I do.
Scott Hammond: We might as well just start with a poem.
Jeff Woodke: All right. I'm gonna give you one that I, that has to do with, with captivity, 'cause I'm sure you're gonna get to that. And, um, it's called PTSD Postcards, and this
Jeff Woodke: talks about the night I was taken hostage.
Jeff Woodke: Souvenirs, every journey has them. Things collected or picked up along the way. All those years. PTSD postcards stamped with old scars gained from day to day, bought with blood and time. Show me yours and I'll show you mine. Muzzle flash, darkness ripped in an orange gash. In lighting the night, it darkened my mind. Death so bright, it drove me blind. I remember the sound of reality torn. I remember the sound of ghosts being born. I can never forget. If memories have no mass, why are they so heavy? To remember the journey is to remember the pain. In doing that, what's the gain? Life binds memory to flesh. To live is a chance of a new day fresh. So we put our keepsakes on a mental shelf, remember the past, and then we discover ourselves. Life is so stubborn.
Jeff Woodke: I died, but I find that more than once or twice, I'm born again.
Scott Hammond: Thank you.
Jeff Woodke: You're welcome.
Scott Hammond: That's great. I love, I love your poetry. So you are the, uh, the website is The Ransom Poet.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: And we can find that anywhere, theransompoet.com, or-
Jeff Woodke: No
Scott Hammond: … or just, just Google-
Jeff Woodke: That's on Instagram.
Scott Hammond: It's Instagram? Okay.
Jeff Woodke: My w- uh, my website is just jeffWoodke.com.
Scott Hammond: Okay. We'll get-
Jeff Woodke: And that's where all kind of stuff is.
Scott Hammond: I see that. I've actually kind of printed some of this stuff. So tell, let's, let's go way back to your, uh, childhood. Where were you born? Where, where'd you grow up at, and how'd you get to Humboldt?
Jeff Woodke: Um, I got to Humboldt in my '67 Chevy Van.
Scott Hammond: Nice. Didn't we all?
Jeff Woodke: Uh, I came up here in 1979 after growing up in
Jeff Woodke: Fremont.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: Down the Bay Area.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And I came up for school.
Scott Hammond: Nice. '79?
Jeff Woodke: '79.
Scott Hammond: Hmm. '78 here.
Jeff Woodke: Oh, okay.
Scott Hammond: Yeah. Sometimes we, we tease on the show it's, uh, everybody has Cal Poly Humboldt. It's always Humboldt State.
Jeff Woodke: No, it's hum- it's HSU, Humboldt State.
Scott Hammond: It's always HSU for me. I, uh, anyway. So what'd you study at Humboldt?
Jeff Woodke: Um, wildlife.
Scott Hammond: Oh. You know that I came up as a wildlife manager, management major and discovered that I was, uh, I just didn't have the goods to do the calculus, the physics, the chem, the basis, and, uh, uh, liberal studies became my…
Jeff Woodke: Well, if you don't like the math, then-
Scott Hammond: There you go
Jeff Woodke: … don't go in the sciences.
Scott Hammond: That's right. No, I stayed, stayed clear, and, uh, glad I did. Got a good education up there.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah, it's a great place. I got my master's there too a few years later.
Scott Hammond: What'd you study for your master's?
Jeff Woodke: About 20. Um, I got it in environmental systems.
Scott Hammond: Okay.
Jeff Woodke: And my specialty was international development tech.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah, with Bob Gerhardt.
Scott Hammond: Good man.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah, Bob's great. I worked with Bob when I was back and forth, going back and forth to Africa. I worked with Bob down at the marsh for, for years in Arcata as a consultant.
Scott Hammond: So he was, he was big… Was he the part of that? Was it CLOP or it was every-
Jeff Woodke: Well, that was back in the day when they built, you know, when they built the, the enhancement wetlands out there.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: But I worked with him at the treatment plant in Arcata-
Scott Hammond: Okay
Jeff Woodke: … in, uh, Marsh Research Institute.
Scott Hammond: Is he still living?
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Is he?
Jeff Woodke: He's still out there-
Scott Hammond: Is he?
Jeff Woodke: … in his, in his chair at the desk.
Scott Hammond: Gets down there. Okay, good. Yeah. So you, uh, did you meet, uh… So tell me about your Humboldt experience. How'd you like it?
Jeff Woodke: Oh, I loved Humboldt. When I got here, this place was just magic for me.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: Just something in the air and something in the people.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: Um, yeah, you got just these beautiful mountains and forests rise tier after tier, and you see them-
Scott Hammond: Hmm
Jeff Woodke: … chewing up the morning fog into little bite-sized tendrils and-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … it's just a beautiful place.
Scott Hammond: Watched it yesterday coming up off of the, you know, the cliff drive on, uh,
Scott Hammond: Lost, whatever that's called, the, uh-
Jeff Woodke: Last Chance?
Scott Hammond: Last Chance Grade. The, it, the, it was evaporating into the trees. I go, "Oh, they're getting a drink right now."
Jeff Woodke: Yeah, but you're not supposed to look up when you're driving down Last Chance Grade.
Scott Hammond: That's true. Fortunately, Jo- Joni was… Thank you, Joni, for-
Jeff Woodke: You're one of those guys, aren't you?
Scott Hammond: Yeah, no, Joni was driving, yeah.
Jeff Woodke: All right.
Scott Hammond: I'm the official napper.
Jeff Woodke: Okay.
Scott Hammond: Yeah. Well, I'll be eating and napping. She, she likes to drive, and I'm, I just… Thank you, hon, for driving. So, uh, t-tell me more. So what did you do after Humboldt?
Jeff Woodke: In 1985, I joined, um, Youth With A Mission.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And I went to Belize, Central America, and I was there for a year or so, and came back up here for kind of a year to work and earn some money.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: Pouring concrete and doing whatever I could. Had a few jobs, I think, at that point. Making tofu with Matthew and-
Scott Hammond: Great guy.
Jeff Woodke: Yep. Doing all kinds of stuff. And then, uh, you gotta be creative up here. You have to have more than one job.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: You have to be a pers- if you wanna be able to make it.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Matthew Schmidt, is that his last name?
Jeff Woodke: Yeah, Matthew Schmidt. He sold the shop.
Scott Hammond: Saw that. I saw him before church. We have a cup of soup-
Jeff Woodke: Yeah
Scott Hammond: … on Sundays, and he came in and, uh, I'd, I'd watched him for months come in and making his final tofu
Scott Hammond: runs and-
Jeff Woodke: Yeah
Scott Hammond: … deliveries, and he was in line one morning and I said, "You know what? I wanna thank you. You're a faithful dude. You've done this for 40, 45 years."
Jeff Woodke: Yep.
Scott Hammond: And, um, a little tear came in his eye.
Jeff Woodke: Mm.
Scott Hammond: It was like, you know, it was like thank you for your service to a man who is a community builder, you know, and job builder and-
Jeff Woodke: That's the thing. Back then you had people that really wanted to start businesses to build the community. Um, yeah. Humboldt's a great place.
Scott Hammond: It is a great place, too.
Jeff Woodke: People have a lot of grace here. They're gracious to each other.
Scott Hammond: I agree with that.
Jeff Woodke: Mm.
Scott Hammond: And, and then I disagree with that, and I think, oh, what about those other guys that I thought
Scott Hammond: of?
Jeff Woodke: You mean the, the, the drivers on the freeway?
Scott Hammond: Oh, the dr- You said, you said, got a… There was an accident on the way in, right?
Jeff Woodke: Something. I got off at South G and got rerouted a- around, along the bridge.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: Something was there. I wasn't gonna
Jeff Woodke: be late, so.
Scott Hammond: A friend said they, it… A lady stopped right in the Ventura Highway today in the middle of the… braked all the way to stop to make a lane change. And he, he… I said, "I'm glad it's you, Howard, and not me down there."
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: It's 103 and, and drivers like that. See you, man. So. So, uh, appreciate you joining us. If you're just joining us, I'm talking to my new best friend, Jeff Woodke, and, uh, you, uh, you went to YWAM. That means you're a guy of, of the mission ilk. That you were-
Jeff Woodke: Yeah, the ilk
Scott Hammond: … a missionary early.
Jeff Woodke: The missionary.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah, I spent, um, what, s-
Jeff Woodke: 31 years-
Scott Hammond: Wow
Jeff Woodke: … as a, a missionary and humanitarian aid worker. And when I was home, I'd, I'd work with Bob Carhart and do whatever else I could.
Jeff Woodke: But yeah.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Jeff Woodke: That's what I did.
Scott Hammond: Did you meet your wife during that time, or was that later?
Jeff Woodke: Um, yeah. I did in, I guess, '86.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: I came out of Morocco. I'd been in Morocco for almost a couple years.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: I went to a conference in, in Amsterdam, and that's where I met Els.
Scott Hammond: Was she, was she a YWAMer, too?
Jeff Woodke: She was at that point.
Scott Hammond: Mm.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Mm. Um, talk about Els. She's super-duper,
Scott Hammond: right?
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: My wife is, is great. She's Dutch, and she, um,
Jeff Woodke: yeah.
Scott Hammond: Does she still speak Dutch? I would imagine so.
Jeff Woodke: I'm sure she does.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah. We have a child and my stepson, Davidson, still in Holland.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And, um, she speaks with him weekly.
Scott Hammond: Oh.
Jeff Woodke: Yep.
Scott Hammond: So you know when they're, they're, she's talking to him because they're Dutchin' it
Scott Hammond: up.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah. M- I don't, we don't speak much Dutch together, but when she goes over, and when I go over, I have to speak Dutch with all my brothers-in-law, so.
Scott Hammond: Sure.
Jeff Woodke: I've got eight of them.
Scott Hammond: Do you have, uh, do you have… Are you fluent?
Jeff Woodke: Um, depends on who you ask. If you ask me, I'd say yes. If you ask my wife, she'd laugh.
Scott Hammond: She… Do you know what you just said, honey? Do you know what you just said to them?
Jeff Woodke: Yeah. Um, I'm not fluent, no. Not anymore, certainly.
Scott Hammond: So Morocco, back to Amsterdam, met Els, and came, came west and, again, and did you guys marry there or here?
Jeff Woodke: No, yeah, married in, in Holland.
Scott Hammond: How about that?
Jeff Woodke: In Amsterdam.
Scott Hammond: Huh.
Jeff Woodke: And, um, we went directly to Niger. That's what I was busy doing, getting the whole work set up. In '87, we drove across the Sahara. You can't do that anymore if you wanna live.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Jeff Woodke: And, um, we drove across, and we drove all through Niger and Burkina and Mali and-
Scott Hammond: Wow
Jeff Woodke: … all these places now. Like Mali and Burkina, they're owned by
Jeff Woodke: the jihadis.
Scott Hammond: Huh.
Jeff Woodke: So. But back then, you know, you could do what you wanted.
Scott Hammond: So just drove it for fun or drove it to-
Jeff Woodke: Oh, no
Scott Hammond: … with a point to go-
Jeff Woodke: We went, we went down to go and, and check things out.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: See what was already going on, see what I could do. I, I wanted to start,
Jeff Woodke: um, what's called a non-gover- non-governmental organization. It's a humanitarian-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … organization because, um, Niger was at that point the poorest country on, in the, on the planet-
Scott Hammond: Mm
Jeff Woodke: … in the world. I think it's still way down there and one of the most least developed or, I guess, one of the least developed
Jeff Woodke: countries.
Scott Hammond: So you started the project there?
Jeff Woodke: Yeah, I did. I started, uh, an organization called,
Jeff Woodke: um, YWAM Relief and Development.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: We kind of started that from the ground and got all of our… It was an international aid organization. And, uh, we started working with nomadic pastoralist people way up in the bush near a town called Abalakh.
Scott Hammond: Wow. So you were really doing, doing work for the communities and actively… When I think of missions, yeah, it, I wanted to make a distinction. I think it's an important one. A lot of us think of missionaries as our, our young Mormon elders that are knocking at our door.
Jeff Woodke: No.
Scott Hammond: That's, that's not this. This is, this is more hardcore in terms of you're living with, living with people.
Scott Hammond: And-
Jeff Woodke: Oh, yeah
Scott Hammond: … and-
Jeff Woodke: We were out there and-
Jeff Woodke: Um, no, that was, that's not the kind of thing I had in mind.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: That's exactly the opposite of what I wanted to do.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: So we wanted to take care of people, and that's what we did,
Jeff Woodke: basically. And what that meant for us was listening to folks and figuring out what they
Jeff Woodke: needed-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … what they wanted, what their aspirations were, and trying to figure out a way to work with their communities to, to make that happen. And we were successful, and we did church planning too, and that's still
Jeff Woodke: going on-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … without us-
Scott Hammond: Good
Jeff Woodke: … obviously.
Scott Hammond: Right.
Jeff Woodke: Um, lots of, lots of folks. Lots of-
Scott Hammond: Wow, I can't imagine the variety of folks that you must have met.
Jeff Woodke: Oh, yeah. We worked with two different nomadic tribes.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And, um, a lot of sedentary folks too.
Scott Hammond: How are the nomads different there versus the nomads in McKinleyville or Humboldt in terms of just, I don't know.
Jeff Woodke: Oh, you mean the travelers?
Scott Hammond: Compare and contrast, yeah.
Jeff Woodke: Well, it's a… The cultures are radically different.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: Um, in Niger, the- they're pastoralists. They're moving with their herds. They're move- following the grass and the water, and, uh, that's their lifestyle. They've got their languages and, you know, their dress and their habits-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … their faith and their daily lives and their routines and-
Scott Hammond: Are they kinder than an average American?
Scott Hammond: Um, and somebody in our culture, I mean, is there a-
Jeff Woodke: Kinder? I don't know. That's kind of a weird-
Scott Hammond: Yeah
Jeff Woodke: Um-
Scott Hammond: Respectful, gracious, I don't know
Jeff Woodke: … they're very gracious folks, very hospitable.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: Take care of you. Um, get on the wrong side and they might pull out their sword, but-
Scott Hammond: Yeah
Jeff Woodke: … um-
Scott Hammond: Why go there?
Jeff Woodke: Exactly. No, they're kind, but they've got their traditions, and you have to know how to fit within that framework so you don't make a- an offense.
Scott Hammond: Yeah. Right. Yeah. That's just the respect. So it says here, "Focused on humanitarian aid, community development,
Scott Hammond: evangelism, uh, led projects related to clean water, fu- food security."
Jeff Woodke: Oh, yeah.
Scott Hammond: I, I don't know what that is.
Jeff Woodke: Um, well, people don't have the ability to purchase food all through the year. The prices fluctuate, right? And when food gets scarce, prices go up.
Scott Hammond: Mm.
Jeff Woodke: And we, we had I don't know how many, basically famines, but we were not allowed to call them famines.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: We all had to call them food crises.
Scott Hammond: Interesting.
Jeff Woodke: So, you know, there might be food in the market, but no one can afford it because there's such a shortage of it.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: So we would do things to try and build a cushion, a bumper, so that people would have a food reserve-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … they could tap into at a low price when the, the hunger gap season came around.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And we also worked on people trying to divers- diversify their incomes, so they didn't just rely on their animals 'cause every time there's a drought, their animals die-
Scott Hammond: Hmm
Jeff Woodke: … and then they're down to nothing.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: So we would do herd reconstitution, but also we'd try and diversify their income-generating activities-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … with them, things they wanted to learn how to do.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: We'd help them learn them and, and set up new businesses.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Jeff Woodke: So they could integrate, you know, different types of, of eggs. Not all in one basket.
Scott Hammond: Right. Right. Yeah, no, I think that's brilliant.
Scott Hammond: The, um-
Jeff Woodke: We won– We did a lot of da- disaster risk reduction. I won a, a UN award for the work in 2008.
Scott Hammond: I was reading that. Yeah. What's– T-talk about that.
Jeff Woodke: That was a Sasakawa Award. We, we did a lot of climate change adaptation and disaster risk reduction stuff.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And we were nominated for an award, and we won. As simple as that. Uh, the United Nations looked at all the other competing projects, and they thought– It was a second place. We didn't get, you know, first place, but-
Scott Hammond: It's the UN. That's a pretty big, pretty big outfit.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah. I mean, you know,
Jeff Woodke: it was a, a great encouragement to us.
Scott Hammond: Yeah. No, it's great. So, uh, we're lead- leading to the captivity in that story and, and want to hear about that.
Scott Hammond: Um, in the meantime, so what, what was the build-up between that and, and your actual a-abduction in, in that, that chapter? Uh, you guys, sounds like you served for a long time.
Jeff Woodke: We were in Niger for 27 years.
Scott Hammond: So you were a fixture. You knew– You had some embedded experience- … 27 years.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah. We'd been through everything, the, the rebellion, you know, the civil war. We– I don't know how many coup d'états.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Jeff Woodke: We'd been through all that. And I, I was, I was administering a big gra- a big grant, about a million pounds from the British government at that point, doing all these things I was just talking about. And we did other things too. We did a lot of, um, land rights, trying to get the indig- indigenous folks out there their land rights. You know, they would always have to wrestle and fight with the government. So we did workshops, so we could help them know what their rights were, and then we'd advocate for them and help them advocate for themselves.
Jeff Woodke: And, um, it was high-profile stuff.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: But I tried to keep a low profile when I was in country. In 2006, my family moved back here. We bought the place in McKinleyville after my mother passed away, and I got some inheritance money. Uh, we bought part of it anyway. The bank still owns a chunk.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And kids went to Mac High And I started doing kind of a ping pong.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: Going over for a couple months and then coming home for a couple months.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And when I was home, I would work with Bob Carro- Gearhart, like I, I was saying.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And that went on for 10 years.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: But I was getting tired of the travel. It's just a, it's a nightmare trip.
Scott Hammond: Oh, man. How many hour- how many, 24 hours easy?
Jeff Woodke: Oh, easy. It's three days to get there all the way.
Scott Hammond: Jeez. How many connections? Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: Uh, you know, it depends on which way you go, but there's a couple.
Jeff Woodke: And, um, yeah, and then there's a very long drive,
Jeff Woodke: you know? So it would take, you know, two days to get home and three days to get out there.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Jeff Woodke: I was tired, and we were going to do, finish the grant, and then I was gonna come back here and get what we call a real job.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And, um, at that point, I don't know how many, you know, probably 10,000 or 15,000 people we were working with.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Jeff Woodke: And, um, I had my staff going back and forth, getting real tired.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: We had… I got audited, like, four external
Jeff Woodke: or four, four, um, audits a year and then one external audit.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Jeff Woodke: So I was constantly in the books and just working my butt off. So I was done.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And we wanted to, you know, just start doing something here, get the house paid off and retire.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And, um, like I said, you know, when, when we were talking, my wife is still working-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … because we have been unsuccessful in that.
Jeff Woodke: But, um, yeah, a friend of mine who I respected a lot, he was a local imam. He passed away, and, um, I was very close to him and his family.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: So I was a big part of the whole grieving process, and there was
Jeff Woodke: the, you know, the graveside, and then there was, um, a week of mourning.
Scott Hammond: This is a holy man.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Imam.
Jeff Woodke: He was an imam.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: He, he was the leader of the, the Tuareg mosque. There were a couple different ethnic groups in town.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: A few, actually, and he, uh, he was a leader, you know, when he, before he retired.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: But he passed away and, and so he was very well, well respected, and there were a lot of people that showed up.
Scott Hammond: How old was he? How did he die?
Jeff Woodke: Um,
Jeff Woodke: yeah. Good question. Uh, there's not a lot of… It's not like here. You just get old and probably Parkinson's, I'm not sure.
Scott Hammond: Mm.
Jeff Woodke: But he passed away, and age, that's also a relative thing because the, not a lot of birth records, but probably in his 70s.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: Late 70s.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: Which in that setting is old.
Scott Hammond: That's old.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Mm.
Jeff Woodke: Anyway, he, he passed away, and, um, a lot of people came in, and there were a lot of people that saw me. That made me really nervous because there were… You know, we knew that, uh, all the terrorists that had taken over Mali, and the French had gone in there to kick them out, and there had been a war going on there for a long time. Libya had collapsed. We'd always had smugglers going through the north, and there was a mafia that ran that whole circuit, and, um, they didn't like me. And, um, I was named as an American agent.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: Which I wasn't, but I guess if you're an American in that situation, everyone thinks you are anyway.
Scott Hammond: Sure. 27 years embedded, yeah.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: So they've– And they did not like me.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And I tried to never advertise my presence when I was local.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: Even on my Facebook, I try to be really discreet about my tr- my travel schedule.
Scott Hammond: Having said that, it sounds like this is high-level missionary stuff, though.
Scott Hammond: And-
Jeff Woodke: High-level missionary stuff.
Scott Hammond: I mean, within the-
Jeff Woodke: That sounds like-
Scott Hammond: … within the realm of-
Jeff Woodke: … a James Bond or something.
Scott Hammond: Yeah. Undercover. Uh, no, it, it sounds… What, what little I know about missions is that this, this sounds like it was the
Scott Hammond: real deal, and it was, uh, the real deal in, in that you had a, an impact.
Jeff Woodke: We did have an impact, and we still are.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: The w- we, the Wadabi church we planted with one of the tribes is still going strong with, you know, they're probably in the thousands now.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Jeff Woodke: So, and that's really good out there.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: So we're, we're thankful for that.
Jeff Woodke: But, um, and we've got kids that, you know, we built schools, and they went to grade school and at university, and they're in professional capacities, and these were kids that were just running around.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: You know, no school.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Jeff Woodke: Never, never a school in their community ever in history.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Jeff Woodke: So yeah, we had an impact.
Jeff Woodke: Um, but the wrong people knew I was there.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And, um, then, uh, they, they just came and got me-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … one night.
Scott Hammond: Let's talk about that in a minute. If you're just joining us, uh, my friend Jeff Woodke from, uh, fellow McKinleyvillean.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah, McKinley-
Scott Hammond: Is that how, is that how we say it?
Jeff Woodke: Macktownvillean.
Scott Hammond: Mackt- The Macktownvillean. What else do they call it?
Scott Hammond: Um, Mack, they have a, uh, there's a supposed gang in McKinleyville, which is such an oxymoron. Um, is there an appropriate poem that you might have with you before we tell the story of the captivity that might, um, pre- predispose us in some way to hear the
Scott Hammond: story?
Jeff Woodke: Well, that was the one I read earlier.
Scott Hammond: Okay.
Jeff Woodke: Boy, you should've asked me to switch them around.
Scott Hammond: I'm really trying to pressure you here a little bit. And like I said, if you're just joining us,
Scott Hammond: um, yeah, if there's something that probably… Or we could do it after, either way.
Jeff Woodke: We can do one after. I've got… Yeah. Okay, that one I read, the PTSD postcards, that would've been better. But it's already been read, so
Scott Hammond: Tell us the captivity story and the ab- the abduction and, and I know there's a book that's done in big publish. We'll talk about that.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah, it's coming out.
Scott Hammond: Um, I'll, I'll… Hey, the mic is yours.
Jeff Woodke: The mic is mine. Um, yeah, it was on the, uh, in Oct- on Oct- 2016, on the 14th of October, which is my take date. That's coming up, so this kinda, this time of year is, is always a difficult time for me. And I came back from that funeral, the last day of it, last night of it, and the electricity that… We did have electricity finally in that little town.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And, um, but it was never very stable, and it was out.
Jeff Woodke: It was hot.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And, um, I had armed guards. I was obliged by the local government to hire soldiers-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … to, uh, guard me at night. It was expensive. And I had my own
Jeff Woodke: civilian guard, night guard.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: Um, he was there even when I wasn't there. The soldiers were only around when I was there.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: But he kinda watched the, watched the house and kept things up when I wasn't in country.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And, um, we'd had a flood, a flash flood had come
Jeff Woodke: through.
Scott Hammond: Huh.
Jeff Woodke: And it knocked… It, it destroyed our whole neighborhood, basically. My house was almost destroyed. All the walls around my house were gone.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: We don't have fences. We had mud walls-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … out of mud brick. And I'd been rebuilding them. I had one left. And there was a, a road that ran in front of the place, and the wall there was still down.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And I came in, and I sat. I, I had the… The soldier was there. He was sitting on a bed. My night guard was there, and they were making tea, and that's what you do. You, you make this very strong green tea. They boil it in a little teapot. They boil it and boil it and add a bunch of sugar. It's bitter like eating aspirin-
Scott Hammond: Hmm
Jeff Woodke: … even with all that sugar. Um, but it's, it's the way it is. It's the tradition. And so they were pouring tea, and, um, they wanted me to sit and say hello and give them the news of the day.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And you couldn't see anything just by the light of the little brazier they had
Jeff Woodke: where-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … with the coals. And, uh, so I sat down, and the guard says, "There's that vehicle again." He's speaking Tamazight. And he reaches for his, his, um, rifle, his
Jeff Woodke: Kalashnikov, and he started to pick it up, and then into my vision on the right came a rifle barrel.
Scott Hammond: Oh, boy.
Jeff Woodke: And then the muzzle flash.
Scott Hammond: Huh.
Jeff Woodke: And that was that poem I read.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Jeff Woodke: The muzzle flash, and then, uh, people died.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And I hit the deck, and, um, I heard a lot of people dying, and I heard a lot of gunshots, and I figured I'm gonna run, so I did.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And, um, they, they got me.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: I didn't get that far. It was a, you know… Couldn't run far. Um, you can't outrun bullets either.
Scott Hammond: Yeah, they're tough.
Jeff Woodke: So they, you know, they started using their, their rifle butts on me, and they knocked me and knocked me and knocked… Finally knocked me down by taking out my right Achilles with a rifle butt-
Scott Hammond: Ouch
Jeff Woodke: … severing it and, and, or most of it anyway. Yeah, I was done.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And then to the head and the body, and then they beat the crap out of me and threw me in their pickup, and off we went.
Scott Hammond: Huh. How many attackers do you figure?
Jeff Woodke: For six and a half years. There were four.
Scott Hammond: Huh. And they came for you specifically, do you believe, or just to recount-
Jeff Woodke: There are mixed stories.
Scott Hammond: Mm.
Jeff Woodke: We've got, we've got a couple ex-hostages that have both testified or, you know, are, are told my crisis management
Jeff Woodke: team leader
Jeff Woodke: that, um, they, they were moved to very secure locations-
Scott Hammond: Hmm
Jeff Woodke: … because the, the, you know, teams were gonna
Jeff Woodke: come to, um, take an American agent hostage-
Scott Hammond: Hmm
Jeff Woodke: … to capture an American agent.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: I've been, also been told other things by other captors.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: But I think that's pretty credible.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Okay. So they got you, and you're in a truck heading somewhere.
Jeff Woodke: I had no clue.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: I mean, I knew which direction we were going.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: But, um, they stripped me naked, threw all my clothes out the window, my wedding ring, everything and-
Scott Hammond: Wow
Jeff Woodke: … off I went.
Scott Hammond: And no, and, uh, busted Achilles.
Jeff Woodke: Yep.
Scott Hammond: Geez.
Jeff Woodke: Busted head.
Scott Hammond: That would, that would really hurt.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Huh. So how long, uh, how long did that go on?
Jeff Woodke: My captivity?
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: Six and a half years.
Scott Hammond: Wow. It's hard to-
Jeff Woodke: Six and a half years
Scott Hammond: … envision, like going to prison.
Jeff Woodke: Well, that's what they call me, a prisoner of war.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: Yep.
Scott Hammond: And you, you transferred from several places too, right, during that journey?
Jeff Woodke: I transferred from different…
Jeff Woodke: Well, the terrorists that were holding me, that kidnapped me, were part of, um… They were their own group, but they were part of a larger umbrella organization called JANM, and I'm not gonna try and
Jeff Woodke: give you the actual name of it. That's just their acronym.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And it was led by a fella named Iyad Ag Ghali.
Jeff Woodke: Still is.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: A Tuareg guy who'd gone terrorist.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And they, um, you know, they had their demands for me. And so I was moved around between the different, um, groups until I finally got to, um, Ansar Dine, which is one of the main groups.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And that's where I stayed for… I was with them for the longest period. But I was never in one place. They moved me constantly.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And I was always outside.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: I was never in a building or under a roof.
Scott Hammond: Were you with common other hostages that were-
Jeff Woodke: No, I was kept in isolation.
Scott Hammond: Solo.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Jeff Woodke: Because they thought I was an agent, so I was chained up-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … and, uh, kept in isolation.
Scott Hammond: Inter-
Jeff Woodke: Solitary
Scott Hammond: … interrogation, of course.
Jeff Woodke: At first, they interrogated me.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: But I mean, it wasn't-
Scott Hammond: Didn't have a lot to say probably.
Jeff Woodke: No, I mean, they wanna know all about the secret American bases, and what do I
Jeff Woodke: know? So-
Scott Hammond: Yeah
Jeff Woodke: … you know. I figured they wanted me dead, they would've killed me.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: And so when they pull out the knife and they stick it on your throat or whatever-
Scott Hammond: Mm
Jeff Woodke: … it's like, "Yeah, sure, you're not gonna do it."
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: And they didn't, so.
Scott Hammond: And their motivation was what? That someday you'd be worth some money to the, to the team?
Jeff Woodke: Not money. Not just money. They wanna get their– They've got mujahideen that are prisoners in West African jails, and they've got people in Guantanamo, and they've got people in
Jeff Woodke: US
Jeff Woodke: prisons.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And they tried to leverage me for them.
Scott Hammond: Ah. Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And it was unsuccessful.
Scott Hammond: These are, these are valuable captors to them.
Jeff Woodke: Um-
Scott Hammond: Wow
Jeff Woodke: … they just– if, if you're a Westerner, you've got a market value.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: You're not a human being.
Scott Hammond: Yeah, it's all currency.
Jeff Woodke: They f- look at you like an animal-
Scott Hammond: Hmm
Jeff Woodke: … like a goat, and that's what they told me. "You're nothing but a goat. If you end up dying, we'll just get another one."
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: So there's ab- absolutely no empathy.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: And I mean, I lived with Muslims for what, you know, 27, 28 years, and, um, I never met any like those people.
Scott Hammond: So th- they're, they are iconic in, in their nature versus the average Muslim person.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: Muslims never bore me any will whatsoever.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: They were always kind and-
Scott Hammond: Hmm
Jeff Woodke: …
Jeff Woodke: you know.
Scott Hammond: S-
Jeff Woodke: And then these people, it, it took me a while to understand or, or to get my mind around the fact that these people that looked exactly like the people I've been working with-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … were acting so completely opposite. And you know, it was, it was hard. But they've been radicalized and-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Sure
Jeff Woodke: … and, um, that's something we're seeing here now.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: And not with Muslims.
Scott Hammond: Yeah. Yeah, right. Exactly.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: So toward the end it was tough, and I, I've heard some of the story. Do you wanna share some of that in terms of-
Jeff Woodke: Towards the end?
Scott Hammond: Or-
Jeff Woodke: The whole time was tough.
Scott Hammond: Whole time was tough.
Jeff Woodke: Um, well, you know, I learned about…
Jeff Woodke: I had to– I was always promised better treatment.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: I'd get out of my chains. They wouldn't knock me around.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: You know, I wouldn't be isolated. I'd get a radio or whatever it might be.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: They even promised me another wife.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: I said, "I got a wife." And they said, "Well, get a, get a new one."
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: They're very misogynistic-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … you know.
Jeff Woodke: And if I would become a Muslim-
Scott Hammond: Hmm
Jeff Woodke: … then all these things would happen.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Jeff Woodke: But I never did.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And I needed to keep my faith. And, but that wasn't easy because when you've been praying for years and years, "Okay, it's about time to go home, God," and then nothing happens. You don't– I don't hear from anybody. I thought my family was dead. I did hear about COVID, but then you get no details.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: Just everyone's dying of this massive virus.
Scott Hammond: Right.
Jeff Woodke: And so I didn't hear from my family. I presumed them dead because, you know, you're in solitary confinement for six and a
Jeff Woodke: half years-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … you kinda get loopy.
Scott Hammond: But they were stateside, correct?
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Yeah. Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah. Else was McKinleyville.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: Kids were, Matthew works in Blue Lake, and Bobby was down in Davis getting his PhD, and-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … and Tim lives here in Eureka.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: So
Jeff Woodke: yeah, family was here.
Scott Hammond: So talk about the release then. T- what happened?
Jeff Woodke: Well, by the end I was, I was, I was done, you know.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And the, the American government had washed their hands of me. They didn't– They weren't even trying to negotiate or do anything to get me out. Um, Trump didn't do a thing in four years, and, um, they've been trying to f- get information on me, my location, so they could send in, you know, whatever special forces unit to get me, which probably gonna get the hostage killed.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And, um, finally they said they weren't gonna do that anymore either.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: But this is after Biden had come in.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And they had made an attempt to negotiate, and, um, they'd gotten the demands down to, you know, a chunk of money.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And then because the FBI took all the prisoner exchange off the
Jeff Woodke: table-
Scott Hammond: Hmm
Jeff Woodke: … 'cause they didn't wanna do prisoner swap-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … the ransom demand in terms of cash doubled.
Scott Hammond: Sure.
Jeff Woodke: My wife didn't have that kind of money.
Scott Hammond: Right.
Jeff Woodke: Who has $6 million?
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: Um, and she couldn't raise it legally.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: Um, if you're rich, you can pay that ransom legally-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … 'cause you don't have to raise it.
Scott Hammond: I see. Could write a check.
Jeff Woodke: Yep.
Scott Hammond: Huh.
Jeff Woodke: Or make a wire transfer more like it.
Scott Hammond: Not, not a lot of millionaire missionaries probably out there.
Jeff Woodke: No. And there are people that wanted to give, but they couldn't do it legally. So she complained to the Secretary of State. She's, she, she was courageous. Well, she spoke to, I think, two Secretaries of State, and-
Scott Hammond: Wow
Jeff Woodke: … and she was always in DC and running around advocating and-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … had all crisis management team. I didn't know any about it.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: I never got any videos. But it was the end, and I was done, and I was hunger striking because I was tired of being kept in chains.
Jeff Woodke: I figured-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … you know, my faith was– my hope was gone. Let's put it that way.
Jeff Woodke: Um, and my faith was almost gone, but I couldn't give up praying for my family-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … because I love them.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: So there's a Bible verse that says, um, um, "These three abide: faith, hope, and love. But, uh, of these three, love is the greatest."
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And-
Scott Hammond: Mm.
Jeff Woodke: … I– that became true to me.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: That, you know, at the end of everything, I still had this love in my heart for my family and I, and for God too. And so I didn't give up praying, but I gave up ever getting out.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: So I was hunger striking 'cause I, I didn't care if I lived or died,
Jeff Woodke: and I… And it worked.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And I got power.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: But you had to be willing to go all the way.
Scott Hammond: How long did you strike?
Jeff Woodke: My longest was, uh, about 10 days and then no
Jeff Woodke: water.
Scott Hammond: Whoa.
Jeff Woodke: And once I threw the water away, I went like one day without water, and it's hot.
Scott Hammond: Sh-
Jeff Woodke: And, um, they came
Jeff Woodke: quick.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Scott Hammond: They mean-
Jeff Woodke: It was two days I'd be-
Scott Hammond: Meaning captors?
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: To take care of you?
Jeff Woodke: Yep.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And, um-
Scott Hammond: What did that mean? Did you get out of chains or-
Jeff Woodke: Yeah
Scott Hammond: … hospital or…?
Jeff Woodke: No.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: No.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: Um, they took the chains off, and they started… And at that point in time, the US had washed their hands of me. They said, "No, no, no more."
Scott Hammond: Oh.
Jeff Woodke: "If he doesn't get rescued, then he's not gonna come home."
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Jeff Woodke: But there was a fella, I can't tell you his name, um, but he's one of my heroes.
Scott Hammond: Mm.
Jeff Woodke: He'd been running
Jeff Woodke: the, the group to try and find information on me-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … um, for the government. But when they, they canceled that contract-
Scott Hammond: Mm
Jeff Woodke: … he kept doing it on his own money, and that's expensive.
Scott Hammond: I bet.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah. And, um, he opened up a, a ch- a line of communications with Iya Rali, the, the leader.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And, um, you know, started just wheeling and dealing on his own without any government.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And it worked. And he managed to, to work out a deal with the French and the Nigeriens and the terrorists and…
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Jeff Woodke: And so as soon as the terrorists knew that there was, there were positive negotiations happening-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … they were willing to, um, improve my treatment.
Scott Hammond: Hmm. Makes sense, yeah.
Jeff Woodke: And so they didn't want me to die at that point, so they started, you know, trying to keep my morale up-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … though I was already kind of insane
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Right
Jeff Woodke: … by that time.
Scott Hammond: You talk about that in the book a little bit?
Jeff Woodke: Oh, yeah, a lot. I talk about a lot of it, yeah. And then I, you know, eight days before I was released or 10 days before I was released, I had, uh, I'd been given a cot finally. I'd been sleeping on the ground outside in the rain and the mud and everything else-
Scott Hammond: Hmm
Jeff Woodke: … for years.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And then they finally gave me a cot and a little radio. Had a radio for eight months before I was released.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And it was 2:00 in the morning, the French news.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And I heard just some, about some trouble, so I went out to pee, and then I came back and I was praying, and the guards thought I was badmouthing them or something 'cause I was speaking in English.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And they came running over and yelling at me, and so I just yelled back. I wasn't taking any BS at that point
Jeff Woodke: .
Scott Hammond: Nothing to lose here
Scott Hammond: .
Jeff Woodke: And so, you know, it, it escalated, and the guy comes up with his rifle and he's pointing it at me. He starts shooting at my feet. I'm like, "Look here," and I gave him some choice American words that I probably can't say.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: I said, "Go ahead. Um,
Jeff Woodke: you-"
Scott Hammond: Mofo
Jeff Woodke: "… such and such."
Scott Hammond: Mofo?
Jeff Woodke: "You raise your aim."
Scott Hammond: Uh-huh. Raise it.
Jeff Woodke: And I tapped my chest and-
Scott Hammond: Wow
Jeff Woodke: … he was gonna kill me, and then the other guy grabbed the barrel. And I was like, "Well, God, I'm kinda upset here," 'cause this, that was my ticket
Jeff Woodke: home-
Scott Hammond: Yeah
Jeff Woodke: … right there.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: That was my ticket out of this mess. And, you know, what's a guy gotta do to die?
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: Come on, God. And 10 days later, I was released.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Jeff Woodke: But I had no idea that was coming.
Scott Hammond: Wow. And now you're on airplanes and seeing people and eating food.
Jeff Woodke: Well, yeah, we, we, you know, they… I didn't believe that we were gonna get released. And I… You know, they took me out to this spot in the desert, and they dumped me off with, um, another hostage they brought in who was gonna go out the same time named Olivier Dubois.
Scott Hammond: The French-
Jeff Woodke: French guy
Scott Hammond: … the journalist?
Jeff Woodke: The French journalist, yeah.
Scott Hammond: Uh-huh. Wow.
Jeff Woodke: And, uh, Olivier was w- the one that convinced me that we're actually gonna
Jeff Woodke: leave.
Scott Hammond: So you believe this is some sort of a setup or some sort of a-
Jeff Woodke: Oh, well, you know, they'd said I was gonna leave I don't know how many times, and then they, you know, you never go.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: So, but he's all like, "No, look at that guy and look at that guy. These are all big bosses. They wouldn't be here if we weren't go…" And they're all on their sat phones in the clear.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: What are you doing on your sat phone? You're gonna get helicoptered. You know, you're gonna get hit by a, a drone.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: But there was something going on 'cause they're all on their sats and-
Scott Hammond: Hmm
Jeff Woodke: … and I was, "Oh, I guess you're right," so I started to eat.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And then a day and a half later, they drove us over a line somewhere-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … into Niger. Told us to get out, pack up, and they drove off.
Scott Hammond: That was it?
Jeff Woodke: That was it.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And there were some, some other guys over there across this black parking lot of… It wasn't a parking lot. It was just little black rocks-
Scott Hammond: Mm
Jeff Woodke: … you know, the desert flat. And we, you know, I limped 'cause I couldn't walk with that cane,
Jeff Woodke: stick. Had to get naked again 'cause the French didn't wanna approach us to approach them until we'd stripped and-
Scott Hammond: Sure
Jeff Woodke: … so I went into captivity naked, and I came out naked.
Scott Hammond: And were born and died naked.
Jeff Woodke: Well, I haven't died yet, but-
Scott Hammond: Well
Jeff Woodke: … kind of. And so then we got, uh, you know, they took us out in a C-130. They landed it out there in the middle of nowhere.
Scott Hammond: Is that right? Wow.
Jeff Woodke: French version of it, I think that. I mean, what do I know?
Scott Hammond: Uh-huh.
Jeff Woodke: But it looked like it. The whole back end opened up. It's a huge beast.
Scott Hammond: And here you're in the belly of this giant-
Jeff Woodke: Yeah
Scott Hammond: … aircraft, huh?
Jeff Woodke: And then we went to, to Niamey and-
Scott Hammond: Where'd you go? Did you say Yemen?
Jeff Woodke: Niamey.
Scott Hammond: Uh-huh.
Jeff Woodke: The capital of Niger.
Scott Hammond: Okay.
Jeff Woodke: And, uh, yeah. Took a few days before I got stateside.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: I couldn't fly initially. I had, um, some medical issues that kept me from
Jeff Woodke: flying.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And then we got on Air France, and, and the FBI uses what they call bad guy money, which is really cool. It's what they get from bad guys, you know.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: Um-
Scott Hammond: It spends well. Just saying.
Jeff Woodke: Oh, man. They put first class Air France.
Scott Hammond: Attaboy.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: That was nice, a little cubicle and everything. And this lady comes, and she's got wine. I'm like, "I didn't drink wine. I drank beer back then."
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And it's like, she shows me this bottle. I'm going, "What are you showing it f- to me for?"
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And then she pours a little in the cup.
Scott Hammond: So simple.
Jeff Woodke: I'm like,
Jeff Woodke: "Really?"
Scott Hammond: Ah.
Jeff Woodke: "Just fill the stupid thing up, lady."
Scott Hammond: Don't be shy.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Get in here.
Jeff Woodke: And from that moment on, I have just loved wine.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: It's just…
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Yeah, it's good. R- red wine, man.
Jeff Woodke: Yep. That's, that was a big change for me, but-
Scott Hammond: That's funny, you were-
Jeff Woodke: That was freedom
Scott Hammond: … a beer guy and then a wine guy.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah, well, wine is freedom, you see.
Scott Hammond: Yeah. Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: And, uh, came home.
Scott Hammond: Fruit of the vine.
Jeff Woodke: Mm-hmm.
Scott Hammond: So, uh, I remember s- flying first class one time. Y- they brought us hot cookies and, and a little glass of milk, ice cold milk, and I'm going, "I, I see why they do this now."
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: You can never afford it, but I c- I get the argument.
Jeff Woodke: Well, it was an expensive flight.
Scott Hammond: So you got-
Jeff Woodke: And I had two FBI agents sitting up there with me. Those guys got-
Scott Hammond: First class, too?
Jeff Woodke: Yeah, they, they should've been back with the scrubs, but-
Scott Hammond: Yeah
Jeff Woodke: … whatever.
Scott Hammond: Some of the benefits, I suppose. So you arrived in McKinleyville one afternoon or morning and-
Jeff Woodke: At night. We were on the-
Scott Hammond: Oh, it was a night flight
Jeff Woodke: … a late flight, and it was pouring rain.
Scott Hammond: How about that?
Jeff Woodke: And, uh, they almost didn't land. They circled, like, three times before they get down. Typical McKinleyville weather.
Scott Hammond: That's interesting.
Jeff Woodke: And, um-
Scott Hammond: Yeah. Three times, though. That's-
Jeff Woodke: Yep
Scott Hammond: … usually-
Jeff Woodke: But they landed
Scott Hammond: … they usually do a one-off, and then they're gone.
Jeff Woodke: Nope, three times they circled.
Scott Hammond: How about that?
Jeff Woodke: And it was rain, not fog.
Scott Hammond: Yeah. There's a difference.
Jeff Woodke: And they landed, and we got out, and then the, in the, the airport, there must have been 150 people there with signs.
Scott Hammond: Mm. Also mind-blowing, I bet, for you.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah, it was amazing.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Kind of living a surreal sort of a… I can't even imagine.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah, it took me a long time to even begin to adjust-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … you know, to have, having choices again and having a bed and…
Scott Hammond: So you drove home to McKinleyville and, and laid in this bed.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Huh, great story. So-
Jeff Woodke: And I thought we lost the house. I didn't think we had anything.
Scott Hammond: So we're gonna talk about the book and the website and all the stuff here in a
Scott Hammond: minute, but we're just gonna change it up on you 'cause you d- you, you, I wouldn't wanna leave you out of this part of the show. So this is the show, the part of the show where there's a quiz.
Jeff Woodke: Uh-oh.
Scott Hammond: And your favorite chocolate guys-
Jeff Woodke: Oh
Scott Hammond: … have supplied you a Bailey's Toledo 72% dark chocolate.
Jeff Woodke: Belize.
Scott Hammond: Belize. Turns out it goes really well with red wine. Who, who, who knew? But this isn't yours yet 'cause you have to answer some questions first.
Jeff Woodke: Oh, man.
Scott Hammond: Are you ready?
Jeff Woodke: Well, I might see Deanna tonight, and I'm gonna tell.
Scott Hammond: You can tell her. This came from her hand. Question number one. Best day of your life?
Jeff Woodke: Um, yeah. When I got off the airport in SFO, or off the airplane in SFO-
Scott Hammond: Mm
Jeff Woodke: … and saw my wife.
Scott Hammond: Was Els down there? Or was she-
Jeff Woodke: Yeah, she went to San Francisco, which is where I came in.
Scott Hammond: To get you. So you flew back with Els?
Jeff Woodke: Mm-hmm.
Scott Hammond: Oh, I bet that was lovely.
Jeff Woodke: So that was… I saw her, Matt, and Bob-
Scott Hammond: Wow
Jeff Woodke: … in this nasty little hallway in-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … the back corner of San Francisco Na- International.
Scott Hammond: Couple of tears?
Jeff Woodke: Oh, yeah.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Mm.
Jeff Woodke: Yep.
Scott Hammond: Would imagine. I like what Gandalf said to Frodo at the end of the movie. He said, "Not all tears are evil."
Jeff Woodke: Okay.
Scott Hammond: I like that. It's great. It's poetic. It's good. Good.
Jeff Woodke: If you would've asked me that one, I would've missed it, but.
Scott Hammond: Yeah, good, good part of the movie. Uh, question number two. What do you find fulfilling?
Jeff Woodke: Writing.
Scott Hammond: Oh, that's right. You're a writer.
Jeff Woodke: I are.
Scott Hammond: Yeah, I, I, I do write. Um, Steve Martin said, "Some people have a way
Scott Hammond: with words, and others no have way." So I like that. Um, and you're a poet, and you've written a book we'll talk about
Scott Hammond: in a minute.
Jeff Woodke: Not a poetry book.
Scott Hammond: Not yet.
Jeff Woodke: No.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: Not yet, exactly.
Scott Hammond: Well, I'm sure we, we could talk about that. Um, what do you find soul-sucking and crushing for you when you witness something that just empties you in- inside and hurts?
Jeff Woodke: Um, yeah, ICE raids.
Scott Hammond: ICE raids, okay.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: And we're not talking about people going to the ice machine at, at the
Jeff Woodke: hotel.
Scott Hammond: Right. Talking about families with children.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah, people getting kidnapped.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: Kind of triggers me.
Scott Hammond: Yeah, I could see why. Uh, let, let… We'll go a little lighter here. You and Els get to eat any restaurant tonight. It's on Joni and I. Or it's with Joni. I- It doesn't matter. Where would you guys go eat?
Jeff Woodke: Larrapin's.
Scott Hammond: Larrapin. Okay. Larrapin Cafe. Like, what is that, Nick? Like, 10 to one Larrapin over 90
Scott Hammond: episodes? Something like that. I can't see him, so I think he's nodding.
Jeff Woodke: They're, like, the only ones left, really.
Scott Hammond: Oh, they're amazing.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Gosh.
Jeff Woodke: I think Brick and Fire is good, too. We like that.
Scott Hammond: Brick and Fire's… Yeah, it's been a minute, but I wanna go back.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: It's, it, uh, it's always consistent. Uh, hey, best cup of coffee in Humboldt.
Jeff Woodke: Oh, um, Brio.
Scott Hammond: Brio. Good one.
Jeff Woodke: Cafe Brio.
Scott Hammond: Yeah, they have that some sort of, uh, roast, um-
Jeff Woodke: Yeah, they won't tell you what it is either.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: It's a special roast.
Scott Hammond: Pretty dang good.
Jeff Woodke: Mm-hmm.
Scott Hammond: I've had their coffee. We had some coffee in Utrecht in, in Netherlands. It's called KEEN, K-E-E-N, and this guy had these exotic roasts from all over, you know, coffee territory. He had a thing called geisha, and it was
Scott Hammond: like no cream in this joint. You can't… There's… You're not gonna wreck it with some milk. And just the note, the notes of the coffee, I was, like, sipping. You know, it was like going to a fancy winery. It was pretty- You have good coffee.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: All right, last question for all the marbles. Who are you and what do you want?
Jeff Woodke: Um, yeah, I don't know if I can answer that.
Scott Hammond: It's okay.
Scott Hammond: It's okay.
Jeff Woodke: I'm finding out who I am.
Scott Hammond: Okay. That, that's half of your answer. That's a good answer.
Jeff Woodke: And what do I want? Um-
Scott Hammond: Discovery
Jeff Woodke: …
Jeff Woodke: yeah. I wanna be able to help people.
Scott Hammond: That's nice.
Jeff Woodke: And I wanna be able to take care of people that have had, um, trauma.
Scott Hammond: God bless you.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: That's awesome. Good answer. Hey, with that- … we have a w- folks, we, we have a
Scott Hammond: winner.
Jeff Woodke: Yay.
Scott Hammond: Jeff Woodke, I'd like to present you with this official
Scott Hammond: Dick Taylor, 72% dark, Belize.
Jeff Woodke: Belize.
Scott Hammond: Belize.
Jeff Woodke: You better Belize it.
Scott Hammond: You gotta b- 'cause you were there.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: You've been here. This was, uh, from Toledo, which it looks like it's on the, uh, southern part of this.
Jeff Woodke: Mm-hmm.
Scott Hammond: Maya Mountain Cacao, dried plum, tart cherry, and jasmine flavors.
Jeff Woodke: There we go.
Scott Hammond: Congrats.
Jeff Woodke: Elsa and I will, and probably Deanna too, will eat some of this tonight at our poetry group.
Scott Hammond: There you go. Is Deanna a poet?
Jeff Woodke: Yes.
Scott Hammond: That's awesome.
Jeff Woodke: I'm not supposed to talk about that, but-
Scott Hammond: Oh
Jeff Woodke: … but yeah.
Scott Hammond: Deanna, you're, you're on, man. You're on next. I wanna hear your poetry. We've had Adam on, and, um, Jenny goes, "Why don't you have Deanna? She's got a lot of stories." I go, "Yeah, I don't know why I don't."
Jeff Woodke: She's a midwife, you know that don't you?
Scott Hammond: She is a great, a great mid- uh, historical midwife and current.
Jeff Woodke: Mm-hmm.
Scott Hammond: Um, where are we at time-wise? Can I just check? Hey, we're doing great. Tell us about the book. You got an upcoming book. You wrote a book. It's, it's being published.
Scott Hammond: Um,
Scott Hammond: go.
Jeff Woodke: The book. The book is called All The Way Home.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And I wrote… I did, I wrote a bunch of books in my head, 'cause I didn't have anything else to do as a hostage.
Jeff Woodke: Um, but this book isn't any of those.
Scott Hammond: Mm.
Jeff Woodke: Because everyone said, "If you're gonna do something, do your memoir first."
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: So I did. And I wrote it. It took me about six months.
Jeff Woodke: Um, I hired an editor. I wrote myself. I didn't use a ghostwriter.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: But I did hire an editor, 'cause there's no such thing as good writing, only good
Jeff Woodke: rewriting.
Scott Hammond: Ah.
Jeff Woodke: And, um-
Scott Hammond: I never heard that. This is totally true, though.
Jeff Woodke: It is.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And
Jeff Woodke: so with Lauren Wolfe, she's a w- amazing editor.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: Um, New York Times journalist, former New York Times journalist. We worked on that manuscript, and then I couldn't get an
Jeff Woodke: agent-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … 'cause no one wants to touch memoir.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: Took a long time. But I finally got Chip MacGregor, who was a great agent, top three or four
Jeff Woodke: for memoir.
Jeff Woodke: And, um, well, we sold that book within a month and a half-
Scott Hammond: Wow
Jeff Woodke: … after I got him.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Jeff Woodke: Uh, HarperCollins picked it up, their Christian imprint- imprint, which a lot of people know as Zondervan. And, um, I didn't want a Christian imprint 'cause I didn't, I don't want the book to be, you know, pigeonholed.
Scott Hammond: Li- limited by that.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: So… But they, they promised me that we'll do a, a bigger marketing campaign.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: So I've been working with them the last few months. We signed the contract and doing… We did all the edits that they wanted done, which weren't a lot because Lauren had done such a good job.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Jeff Woodke: It's being– It's doing… In copy edit now, which is where they're making sure everything's spelled right-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … there's no punctuation errors, and then it'll be typeset. And then we'll go into marketing. But it won't be out for a while because they want a fall release, so we can't get it
Jeff Woodke: this-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And the title again?
Jeff Woodke: All The Way Home.
Scott Hammond: It'll have a website, I'm sure, once the… It's all in play.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Be on Amazon?
Jeff Woodke: Um, I think it'll probably just be through HarperCollins directly, unless they've got a link through Amazon.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: We'll talk about that in the marketing meeting that's coming up.
Scott Hammond: Probably a Kindle version at some point.
Jeff Woodke: Oh, yeah. There'll be an Audible and an e-book, and I'll-
Scott Hammond: Hmm
Jeff Woodke: … hopefully do the reading for the Audible.
Scott Hammond: I was gonna ask that. That'd be cool.
Jeff Woodke: Yeah.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: Hey, it pays 300 bucks an hour.
Jeff Woodke: I'm-
Scott Hammond: Hey, you're down.
Jeff Woodke: And hopefully we're gonna have, um, dramatic rights sold pretty quick.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Jeff Woodke: We'll get a documentary and maybe a feature film out of it.
Scott Hammond: Wow.
Jeff Woodke: We've got about 20 different,
Jeff Woodke: um, you know, production companies interested. So hopefully that'll happen soon.
Scott Hammond: That'd be cool.
Jeff Woodke: It will be cool.
Scott Hammond: What about the guys in Atlanta that did, uh, Fireproof and did all
Scott Hammond: the… What are the other movies I'm thinking about? They did, um… They produced all their own stuff. They're from a giant church in Georg- in Atlanta, Georgia, and they did, um, Courageous. It was a movie they did.
Jeff Woodke: Oh, yeah.
Scott Hammond: Um, I don't, th- I mean, I don't know. Who, what do I know? There's probably-
Jeff Woodke: My, my, uh-
Scott Hammond: Maybe you want the new guy out there that's-
Jeff Woodke: Chip MacGregor. He's a great agent, and he's-
Scott Hammond: Yeah
Jeff Woodke: … working. He'd be great to work with.
Scott Hammond: So they would do a screenplay of this and, and a rewrite and-
Jeff Woodke: Well, they do a, uh, probably a documentary first, and, um, then they'll do a screenplay for a feature
Jeff Woodke: film.
Jeff Woodke: Which is-
Scott Hammond: Yeah, that would be cool
Jeff Woodke: … that would be very cool.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: Ka-ching, ka-ching.
Scott Hammond: Well, you're still in the mis-
Jeff Woodke: At this point we're looking for ka-chings.
Scott Hammond: Ka-chings. Still in the mission field, however.
Jeff Woodke: No, not really.
Scott Hammond: A different one.
Jeff Woodke: Kind of, yeah.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: I mean, I worked to get other hostages out.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: We did. We were successful-
Scott Hammond: Let's talk about that
Jeff Woodke: … getting-
Scott Hammond: Yeah
Jeff Woodke: … Iulian out, um, a Romanian. But then, you know, after all the hostages got out of… They were held by JAD and were released, I f- I, you know, we didn't have the funds, we didn't have the-
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm
Jeff Woodke: … the network to do that anymore.
Scott Hammond: Sure.
Jeff Woodke: So at this point, my only job is writing.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Good. Hey, good poetry. Speaking of which, see how, see how I made that smooth segue into the next
Scott Hammond: poem?
Jeff Woodke: Oh.
Scott Hammond: Would you, would you, would you oblige us?
Jeff Woodke: Yeah. What do you want? I've got a Humboldt, a real Humboldt one.
Scott Hammond: Let's t- you know, let's do that one last 'cause it's-
Jeff Woodke: Okay
Scott Hammond: … Humboldt County. Did you see that we're from Humboldt County over here with our
Scott Hammond: official-
Jeff Woodke: I couldn't tell
Scott Hammond: … map? Oh, yeah.
Jeff Woodke: Um, this one is called The Road Home.
Scott Hammond: Okay.
Jeff Woodke: It's, it's kinda Humboldt County, but not really.
Jeff Woodke: Um, obviously I got a therapist. Everyone should get one.
Scott Hammond: Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: Um, and this is kind of something my therapist always tells me. She said, "Well, you gotta make space." You gotta make space.
Scott Hammond: Mm.
Jeff Woodke: If you wanna stay alive and you don't wanna give in to the final solution, then you have to make space in your life, in your mind, in your heart.
Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And, um, so I've been learning how to do that.
Scott Hammond: Hmm.
Jeff Woodke: And I think, um, this poem sums it up for me, the journey I've had making that space and where I wanna go with it.
Jeff Woodke: Shimmering. So close, it whispers touch it. The bright horizon of death, the space between us, a single breath. A single breath that's all my breaths. A single death that's all my deaths. A single choice that's mine to make. A single step that's mine to take. Breathe deeper, she speaks.
Jeff Woodke: I obey. Expanding space, captivity crumbles, walls falling away. Room to cry, there's a bit more of it now. I try to do it, but I don't remember how. I make room enough for my dead heart to beat. I make room enough to shake the chains from my feet. I make room enough to find the tears that I lost. I make room enough to count freedom's cost. Breathe even deeper, she speaks. Again, I obey.
Jeff Woodke: Rage, its redness fills my soul. Burning, it consumes my space again. I fight the flames. The only weapons I have are paper and pen. I write, turning flaming blood to ink. I write, making room for my heart to think. I write to feel what I can never say. I write to make room to live one more day. Fill your life with breath, she speaks.
Jeff Woodke: I inhale. Home, I can't quite get there. I'm betrayed by my own tricks of survival. They got me back, but I was dead on arrival. I rhyme to bring myself back to life.
Jeff Woodke: I rhyme some room for my kids and my wife. I rhyme enough space, s- enough space that I'm no longer alone. I rhyme enough space to put my family and home. Breathe out love, she speaks.
Jeff Woodke: I exhale.
Jeff Woodke: Shimmering, I reach out and touch it. The bright horizon of forgiveness that lets me expand in love, though I still feel pain from all I've witnessed. I breathe space enough to fit all my feelings. I breathe space enough to find some kind of healing. I breathe space enough to fit you in my heart. I breathe space enough for us all. It's only a start. Walk in this land, she speaks. I journey on.
Scott Hammond: Whoa.
Jeff Woodke: I don't have a mic to drop, but I'd do it if I did.
Scott Hammond: That'd be a good mic drop moment. Man, that was, that was rich. Love it. Thank you.
Jeff Woodke: You're welcome.
Scott Hammond: Jeff, thanks for being here.
Jeff Woodke: You're welcome. Are we done?
Scott Hammond: We're almost done.
Jeff Woodke: Okay.
Scott Hammond: Yeah. So we're gonna learn how-
Jeff Woodke: What are we gonna talk about?
Scott Hammond: … to get a hold, get a hold of you. So you're on Instagram.
Jeff Woodke: I am on Instagram.
Scott Hammond: What's your handle?
Jeff Woodke: TheRansomPoet.
Scott Hammond: Okay.
Jeff Woodke: And, uh-
Scott Hammond: On the Gram
Jeff Woodke: … on the Instagram.
Scott Hammond: And you got a website?
Jeff Woodke: I do have a website.
Scott Hammond: Ransom Poet.
Jeff Woodke: JeffWodke.com.
Scott Hammond: W-O-O-D-K-E
Jeff Woodke: Yep
Scott Hammond: … dot com.
Jeff Woodke: Dot com.
Scott Hammond: And then, uh-
Jeff Woodke: And that's, that's is… Website was built by Matt Beard. None other than Matt Beard.
Scott Hammond: Matt, Matt Beard, the man, the myth, the legend?
Jeff Woodke: The man, the myth, the legend, the artist.
Scott Hammond: That's a cool webs- I like your website.
Scott Hammond: Simple.
Jeff Woodke: He'll be, he'll be there tonight, too.
Scott Hammond: Oh, really? Tell him hi. Yeah.
Jeff Woodke: I will.
Scott Hammond: And Deanna. Man, you guys got all the… I'm going to your place.
Jeff Woodke: We got all the cool people.
Scott Hammond: All the cool kids. Hey, thanks again for being here. Thanks again for listening, and if you wanna like us, uh, uh, say so. Uh, check the boxes. Do the things. Enter to win a Dick Taylor chocolate bar. Come back next week. We'll be right here. Scott Hammond, 100% Humboldt, with my new best friend-
Jeff Woodke: Thanks
Scott Hammond: … Jeff Woodke.
Jeff Woodke: Thank you.
Scott Hammond: Thanks, Jeff.