#133. When Humboldt Was Told Trails Would Never Happen | Jen Rice

Scott Hammond: Hey, it's Scott Hammond with the 100% Humboldt Podcast with my new best friend, Jen Rice. Hi, Jen.

Jen Rice: Hey.

Scott Hammond: How are you?

Jen Rice: Thanks for having me. I am fantastic.

Scott Hammond: I'm really- I'm kind of excited. You come really well recommended-

Jen Rice: Oh

Scott Hammond: … by Julie Fulkerson.

Jen Rice: Oh. Well, she's, she's top-notch human for sure. I'm honored to be on anybody's list.

Scott Hammond: So before you tell us your whole life story-

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … uh, tell us, uh, what's your, what do you do? What's your deal? What's your name-

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … rank, serial number?

Jen Rice: What do I do? I guess I would say, uh, you know, a through line for me, uh, is, you know, I started out in, working in the woods. I grew up outside in the Southern Sierras and-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Jen Rice: … rivers and deserts, and, um, my mom was an amateur naturalist, so of course, that's what I went on to study. But then it didn't take me that long of working in the, you know, natural ecosystems to shift to human ecosystems 'cause-

Scott Hammond: Oh

Jen Rice: … I could just… I'm drawn to systems that need a lot of players to solve complex challenges, and, um, that's how the, that's how we get, make big things happen in the world, right?

Jen Rice: So-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … and you can't do that in any realm, whether it's land management or cities or counties or tribes or-

Scott Hammond: Or the Hum-

Jen Rice: … organizations without the human ecosystem, the relationships that hold them all together.

Scott Hammond: Or the Humboldt Bay Trail.

Jen Rice: Or the Humboldt Bay Trail. Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Oh, we'll get there. I got way ahead of myself. So what part of, uh, uh, like Kern County, down that way?

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm. Wow. How did you guess that?

Scott Hammond: I kinda know my geography.

Jen Rice: Yeah. Um-

Scott Hammond: Did you ever hear the one about the mapmaker, the cartographer, that couldn't get a job 'cause he had no sense of Yuma? First person ever that's laughed at that.

Scott Hammond: Thank you.

Jen Rice: No, I kind of s- started s- uh… When I first went to work at a nonprofit, I was doing a lot of cartography.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Jen Rice: So I, yeah, mapmaking is fun to me.

Jen Rice: Um-

Scott Hammond: What part of Kern? Like Ridgecrest?

Jen Rice: Kern County to Tehachapi, actually.

Scott Hammond: Oh, you're way up there.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

Jen Rice: Yeah. So-

Scott Hammond: We have friends there.

Jen Rice: Oh, really?

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: Yeah. Not many people come from that part of the state to this part of the state.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: Yeah. Um, but I-

Scott Hammond: He went the other way. He lived here and went to Humboldt.

Jen Rice: And went south.

Scott Hammond: And became a principal-

Jen Rice: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … Tehachapi.

Jen Rice: I actually met at one of the Humboldt Bay Trail little dedication things, um, when I was speaking about the journey of creating the trail. Somebody came up to me afterward, and he asked me, he told me where he was from. He was from Tehachapi, and he had planned the entire multi-use trail system there.

Jen Rice: And-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Jen Rice: … I, just, just something, if, if anybody here knows Tehachapi, just a small little Southern Sierra mountain town.

Jen Rice: I-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … was shocked and amazed to see trails appear in Tehachapi, and I met the guy who did it on the-

Scott Hammond: That's cool

Jen Rice: … Humboldt Bay Trail.

Scott Hammond: Oh, that's cool.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Cathartic.

Jen Rice: Yes.

Scott Hammond: Nice. So tell us, where'd you, where were you raised?

Scott Hammond: Do you-

Jen Rice: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … kind of, you, where'd you go to school? Where'd you, how'd you wind up in Humboldt?

Jen Rice: Yeah. I, um, my whole life centered around the Southern Sierras and the Mojave Desert, uh, growing up.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Jen Rice: That's, my family spent all our spare time in the mountains and the rivers and the-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Jen Rice: … desert. And, um, if it wasn't for having fun, uh, it was milling lumber to build our house.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Jen Rice: So my dad was a fire captain, and he spent all his spare time. He took a long time to build an incredibly beautiful home and homestead.

Jen Rice: And-

Scott Hammond: That's cool

Jen Rice: … and we all got to help. So he'd take us out of school every once in a while and to put shakes on the roof in a snowstorm or-

Scott Hammond: Right

Jen Rice: … when I was in fourth grade or, you know, things like that.

Jen Rice: So-

Scott Hammond: As one does.

Jen Rice: As one does, yeah. Yeah. And naturally, all my, you know, all my cousins went into firefighting, so that's what I did immediately-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Jen Rice: … after, when I came, uh, well, to support myself going through college. I went into wildland firefighting and-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Jen Rice: … um, and then that just at the time was way too focused on, um, I was learning natural resource management at Humboldt State at the time. I had come north here, and I just-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Jen Rice: … felt like the way they did it wasn't in keeping with what we knew about how to manage land.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Jen Rice: So I transitioned into being a backcountry ranger, and I just found out that was really mostly backcountry janitor and, um-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Jen Rice: … picking up after people.

Jen Rice: So-

Scott Hammond: Right. Right

Jen Rice: … yeah. Anyway, but I came to Humboldt because, um, my sister actually was, she became a river guide on the Kern River when she was 16, my older sister.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Jen Rice: 'Cause my uncle helped all the river companies there figure out where to run rivers. And so he got her a job, and the guy she worked for there said, "Hey, you should come up to Humboldt, and there's a volunteer program called LEAP, and we run rivers, and you should train all the river guides."

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Jen Rice: And so she did, and I followed her.

Scott Hammond: Who was the guy?

Jen Rice: Jim Ritter.

Scott Hammond: Jimmy Ritter.

Jen Rice: Jimmy Ritter. So yeah, have you-

Scott Hammond: Hi, Jim

Jen Rice: … that's the guy to interview. Hi, Jimmy.

Scott Hammond: I should get Jim on the list.

Jen Rice: I live here 'cause of Jim Ritter.

Scott Hammond: It's your fault.

Jen Rice: I do. It's true.

Scott Hammond: It's all your fault, Jim. Just saw him recently. Where was it? Maybe Facebook. I don't know.

Scott Hammond: Anyway.

Jen Rice: Yeah, incredible leader, and I, I think one of the amazing things about Jim is he cultivates other leaders-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … very, very well.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: And he's– I can't even fathom the number of people he's, you know, supported into becoming leaders. And, um, that was, you know, I followed my sister up here for a spring break when I was in high school, and I woke up under a madrone tree on the Trinity River and just went, "Yeah."

Scott Hammond: This is cool.

Jen Rice: "This is amazing. What is this tree?" And then I met all these people who look you straight in the eye. They care. They're committed. They volunteer.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Jen Rice: They are focused on the right things. I mean, as much as I grew up in rural, you know, uh, Southern Sierras, it's Southern California, so people were very focused on-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … things and status and cars and-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … I, that wasn't me. So when I came up here-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … and I met people who You know, were just real humans. You could just tell immediately.

Scott Hammond: I love it

Jen Rice: And that, that really was, I think, what sealed the deal for me to come-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … move here, and I've been here ever since.

Scott Hammond: Here you are. You stayed.

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: So I think, I think of all that as acquisition and-

Jen Rice: Mm

Scott Hammond: … acquisition bed space and talked about, uh, the podcast today at Rotary in McKinleyville, like, as I told you.

Jen Rice: Mm.

Scott Hammond: And, um, that's the theme. That this is a place where people care. Look you in the eye and, and not 100 per- of course not 100%.

Jen Rice: No, yeah.

Scott Hammond: But there's-

Jen Rice: But more than usual.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. I mean, I think Medford's friendly. I find Boise friendly.

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: But there's, there's always the coming back and going, "Oh, okay."

Jen Rice: Yeah, and for so many people who've lived here for long enough and moved away and say, "I just still have never found a place-"

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … "where the people, you know, care as much about each other or are as committed to their communities or-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … show up for each other," I can't… I don't know the number of times I've been to fundraisers for families who, you know, for somebody who's got a kid in the ICU in San Francisco or-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … raising money for cancer care or something, and family comes from somewhere else, and they walk in the door, and their jaw hits the floor, and they go, "Did I just step back into another century?" Like-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Jen Rice: … I, I didn't know people did this for each other anymore.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Jen Rice: And-

Scott Hammond: Right

Jen Rice: … those kinds of things are when people move away, and they, you know, keep wishing they could find this kind of community. There's just so many data points that tell us that it's truly a special place.

Scott Hammond: It is, yeah. I've found it in 135 episodes.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I've-

Jen Rice: You've got a rich data set.

Scott Hammond: I have, I have a data set, and, uh-

Jen Rice: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … I, I'm an archivist.

Jen Rice: Mm.

Scott Hammond: And you're being archived.

Jen Rice: Oh.

Scott Hammond: Hey, while we're talking cartography-

Jen Rice: Yes

Scott Hammond: … and I can do my, my prop.

Jen Rice: Absolutely.

Scott Hammond: Hey, Nick, over here. Pan to me. Um, this is Humboldt County, which is in California. And we're here over in Eureka on the bay here. Uh, Joni and I live up here in Dows Prairie-

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … which is in McKinleyville, which is also in California. And this is my Metzger cartography cool, cool guy map.

Jen Rice: I love it.

Scott Hammond: I have one of these in my office.

Jen Rice: I love you giving a little context.

Scott Hammond: It's great. And there's al- you know, what's cool about this map, it's got little places that you go, "Panther Gap? What? Where?" And anyway, so it's fun. I thought you'd get a kick out of that.

Jen Rice: I, well, I love that you show that map 'cause I've lived here almost 40 years, and I… People ask me all the time, "Oh, you must know everywhere to go." I'm like, "I still have a lifetime ahead of me of-"

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … seeing the amazing places here.

Scott Hammond: 'Cause you're a hiker, biker, and you develop trails and do things.

Jen Rice: I do. I love the backcountry. I love to row boats down rivers.

Jen Rice: I love-

Scott Hammond: Cool

Jen Rice: … all kinds of things about this place.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So I bet you know Reese Hughes.

Jen Rice: Absolutely. He was one of my formative mentors.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Hi, Reese.

Jen Rice: Hi, Reese.

Scott Hammond: Reese is cool. He's a nice guy.

Jen Rice: He is, and-

Scott Hammond: You know who likes you also? That-

Jen Rice: Oh

Scott Hammond: … uh, I don't know formative. You guys worked together. Carol, and I should know her last name.

Jen Rice: Carol Vandermeer?

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: Ah.

Scott Hammond: Glasses, tall.

Jen Rice: Wait, this is a different Carol.

Scott Hammond: You guys worked at H-Sh- H-A-R or-

Jen Rice: H-HAF

Scott Hammond: … HAF together. She's in McKinleyville. She's in the Rotary Club.

Jen Rice: Oh.

Scott Hammond: She's retired.

Jen Rice: Oh, she worked at the water district.

Scott Hammond: Correct. Correct.

Jen Rice: Yes.

Scott Hammond: I think so, yeah.

Jen Rice: Yes. So we didn't work… Well, she was on the board at HAF, yes.

Scott Hammond: Okay, yeah.

Jen Rice: Yes.

Scott Hammond: That's, yeah, she said to tell, tell you hi.

Jen Rice: Aw.

Scott Hammond: So hi from Carol.

Jen Rice: Hi from Carol. Uh, another incredible leader I admire so much. All these people who've given their lives to making this a better place is truly phenomenal. You can't look around without seeing lots of those people.

Scott Hammond: And it's really cool. I, I think you, you tapped it into something that is, um, people that pour out their lives into other people.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: Yeah. And, you know, and it's, I, you know, part of what makes me tick is also that that comes with a, I don't know what you wanna call it, a strategic tension. You know, s- the, what is also true is that we care so much that we, we get, we can get into a lot of fights.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Oh, you've seen that.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: What did you call-

Jen Rice: Things get hard

Scott Hammond: … what did you call it? Ego, e-ego-ecosystems?

Jen Rice: Ecosystem management, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Ah.

Jen Rice: It's, yeah. We get very attached to what we think is the right way to do things or how to, you know.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Jen Rice: I always fall back on the example of I think we have 14, um, animal rescue nonprofits here.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Jen Rice: Because it's incredible how much people care about-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … their pets, and it also illustrates how everybody wants to do it slightly differently.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, yeah.

Jen Rice: You know, which is a blessing, and it can be a challenge, I think, in figuring out how to work together, which is always-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … the nut I wanna crack is how do we work together better? Uh-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … 'cause I feel like that's, like, probably one of the predominant challenges of our age that we've gotta figure out how to do better is figure out where our common ground is and, uh, help each other through all the, well, what I call standard operating turbulence. It's just the normal way of being now.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Jen Rice: Everything changes so fast, so quickly.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: You can't really land on anything before you gotta shift, and we can't do that very well if we don't-

Scott Hammond: Talk.

Jen Rice: Yeah, have good, strong relationships. I mean, it sounds so fluffy. I mean, that's coming from someone who grew up running sawmills and chainsaws and-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … you know.

Scott Hammond: It's okay.

Jen Rice: Uh, yeah, it was, it was okay in my family to throw a beer can out the window and tell somebody riding a bike to get a job and buy a car.

Jen Rice: I mean-

Scott Hammond: No lyrics

Jen Rice: … so that's, you know, that's some context that-

Scott Hammond: It's the olden, the olden days.

Jen Rice: Yeah, the olden days.

Jen Rice: But it, the, it sounds so fluffy to say it's all about relationships, but I keep coming back to that as that's the glue-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … of our human ecosystem, and people don't, I don't know, invest in them enough, I guess.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. I watch a guy in the morning called John Ortberg, who's amazing, does this little 10-minute thing every day, and today he was talking about how they did research. We're doing 338 words less per day every year.

Jen Rice: Mm.

Scott Hammond: So people are not talking.

Jen Rice: Wow. Yeah.

Scott Hammond: We're talking less. He goes, "Get chatty Make an effort and get the discipline of talking to people.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: You know, reintroduce that. And the other thing that triggered me in a good way was, um, in the 1700s, the coffee shops in New England, you actually looked for people to discourse with that were different.

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: And that you could get into and maybe learn, "Could I learn something from you 'cause you're not me?"

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Maybe. Maybe so.

Jen Rice: It's so rare-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … to see that these days-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … of really seek out diverse opinions, and that's, for me, most of what I do is centered around listening. So any project I start-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Jen Rice: … I always ask, "Are you willing to start by doing lots of listening?"

Jen Rice: Because-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … and to really different people. Because the amazing thing, it's k- it really feels like magic every time-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Jen Rice: … is that the things that they all share in common just stick out like neon every time, and they-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Jen Rice: … appear immediately and run all the way through, and it's every single time.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Jen Rice: Um, like, I, I guess I should give some examples.

Jen Rice: Uh, I guess working in Fortuna recently, helping the city kind of reinvent itself a bit-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Jen Rice: … from, you know, having been a timber town-

Scott Hammond: Right

Jen Rice: … and that changed-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … decades ago, and then our other kind of resource-based economy for the whole region has changed-

Scott Hammond: Hmm. Oh, yeah

Jen Rice: … radically. So, uh, you know, a bunch of volunteers and staff members went out in Fortuna, and we listened to about 60, 63 people.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Jen Rice: Staff, community members, council members, kids, Spanish-speaking community members, folks who've lived there forever, folks who've just moved there, and it just constantly kept coming up that everybody wants to make sure that there's, you know, economic vitality in that community 'cause they understand. They, the city can't afford to provide the services people want if they-

Scott Hammond: And-

Jen Rice: … don't have an economy

Scott Hammond: … it's been drained for years.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: A lot of closures.

Jen Rice: Yeah. And is, and that's situated within a, I don't know, a regional and a global economy where we're all-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … trying to figure out how brick-and-mortar stores are gonna survive anyway.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Jen Rice: You know?

Scott Hammond: Right.

Jen Rice: So s- and so that came up immediately. Their care for their kids-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … is not something you hear commonly in community planning processes-

Scott Hammond: Huh

Jen Rice: … but it was immediate and-

Scott Hammond: That's cool

Jen Rice: … loud and clear.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Jen Rice: And their care for their outdoor spaces, you know?

Scott Hammond: The friendly, the friendly city.

Jen Rice: Yeah. You know, and there was a good, robust conversation about that, that some people don't feel so welcome in-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … the Friendly City, and other people are like, "What are you talking about? This is, this is a friendly place." But they could have that honest conversation because it was a theme-

Scott Hammond: I love it

Jen Rice: … among kids, actually, were the ones-

Scott Hammond: Really?

Jen Rice: … who kept calling out. They had this little moniker, Fortuna Not So Friendly.

Scott Hammond: Oh.

Jen Rice: Um, and, and Spanish-speaking community, but then they could have a conversation about it.

Scott Hammond: Better.

Jen Rice: And talk about, "Okay, so that's an honest analysis of how some folks feel here, so what do we wanna do about that?" You know?

Scott Hammond: Love it.

Jen Rice: "How do we incorporate that into where we're headed in the future?" And, um, I hope that that phrase doesn't get picked up on and carried away with because it really showed itself to be a, you know, a model caring community for each other-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … through that process of figuring out where they wanna go together.

Scott Hammond: They have so many cool town things they've done for years. Chili cook-off.

Jen Rice: Yeah. And that's part of their identity-

Scott Hammond: Auto expo

Jen Rice: … too, is all the events. Like, their event capital of Humboldt.

Scott Hammond: Fortuna Rodeo.

Jen Rice: Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Come on. Come on.

Jen Rice: And that's what we talked about. Like, how do you recognize your assets-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … of these out- plous- places where people wanna be outside by the river and the forest and events, and how do you triple down on that? Family-based kid activities-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Jen Rice: … sports, you know. So they've got a group of community members who are figuring out, yeah, what the… How do they do all of that? How do they get what they need-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … and have it be economic development as well?

Scott Hammond: My best-

Jen Rice: You know?

Scott Hammond: … State Farm story. Oh.

Jen Rice: Hmm.

Scott Hammond: Oh, my State Farm story. Uh, Don Brown, who was a legend, uh, State Farm guy down there. I was, I was new 13 years ago, and I came in with my suit. I'm gonna, you know, tutelage tutor with him for the day. He goes, "Scott, right there in my apartment is a whole change of clothes. Go get your flips on. We're gonna go kayaking." And so he has his cherry kayaks that he made already mounted on the Subaru, and we're in Hook and Slough in 20 minutes, and it was the best quintessential Fortuna story that I have.

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Uh, and that ties into my life. And he goes, "Scott." He goes, "Enjoy this Humboldt County 'cause it's, you know, it- you wanna work hard, but you wanna go play too and have fun."

Jen Rice: Play hard too.

Scott Hammond: You know?

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And so he goes, "And then make a name for yourself in the community. Do community related and, uh, always sell good life insurance." And I said, "I can do that, Don." And it was a magic day with not sitting in the office.

Jen Rice: You know, that just makes me think about something that I've learned over the years, which is how we do things is just as important as what we're doing. That's-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Jen Rice: … there's this old adage that, you know, culture eats strategy for breakfast. It's like-

Scott Hammond: Ooh

Jen Rice: … um, and what he did for you was model, like, how we actually are productive here-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … is that we actually live life. It's not about just work your fingers to the bone.

Jen Rice: It's about-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … living in this incredible place.

Scott Hammond: Hmm. In relationship-

Jen Rice: In relationship

Scott Hammond: … one might say.

Jen Rice: Yeah. No.

Scott Hammond: As, as one does.

Jen Rice: What a great way to… Yeah. It's like, well, I can just bring you in, and we could train you, or we could go out on the river and spend some time together.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. And you could actually absorb, you know, catch it. Caught, not taught.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Or maybe both. A little bit of both. Hey, if you're just joining me, my new best friend, Jen Rice, is here and, uh, she's gonna tell you some more about, um, kinda some of your accomplishments kinda leading up to, uh, getting your, you're getting your master's now.

Jen Rice: Mm.

Scott Hammond: We'll talk about that and then, uh, talk about Humboldt Bay Trail.

Jen Rice: Mm. Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: And then you get to do the quiz.

Jen Rice: Ooh.

Scott Hammond: For the… Did you know there's Dick Taylor Chocolate now?

Jen Rice: Oh.

Scott Hammond: What do… Oh, Fleur de Sel.

Jen Rice: Mm.

Scott Hammond: Oh my gosh. Do you like chocolate?

Jen Rice: I take every visitor here. One of the first things I do- … is I take 'em to Dick Taylor.

Scott Hammond: Weird.

Jen Rice: I not only love the chocolate, I love the people.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: And the musicians. Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Hear that, Adam, and hear that, Dustin.

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: So that white van that you saw out there is Adam's.

Jen Rice: Oh.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. I, we borrowed it for the weekend. I'm returning it

Jen Rice: And it's El Mundito, no?

Scott Hammond: Which is-

Jen Rice: It's a small world.

Scott Hammond: It is-

Jen Rice: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … El Mund- is that how you say it?

Jen Rice: El Mundito.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Seven layers of Humboldt Co- two layers of Humboldt County. It's really small.

Jen Rice: I got the Humboldt Social Olympics Venn diagram. It's like, how do all the circles overlap?

Scott Hammond: Oh, I like that.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Very clever. I like that.

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: So tell us more. So you got to Humboldt, and you graduated?

Jen Rice: Yeah, I got to Humboldt, and, uh, well, immediately I started, uh, my first semester there, I started running a community program, and I got to know, uh… My first project was, um, pulling the Manila Community Park back into order with Bev Prosser out in the Manila-

Scott Hammond: Cool

Jen Rice: … Community Services District for-

Scott Hammond: Cool

Jen Rice: … yeah, and then I just, uh, was working with people like Margie Fitzpatrick, who was like godmother of, like, community service in Humboldt, and-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Jen Rice: … she actually grew up with my grandma in the Mojave Desert.

Jen Rice: Um, and so I just immediately landed and got focused on community work. So I had this kind of two-track education here-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … like learning how to do things with lots of people in the community and then learning natural resource management.

Jen Rice: And-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … I went to work for federal land management agencies during my college years to put myself through school and after college, and I just, I loved working in the woods and working-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Jen Rice: … outside. I just felt like I couldn't… I'm a natural innovator, and I like to help people figure things out, and it just wasn't r- federal government wasn't really the place for that for me.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Jen Rice: So I shifted into working for nonprofit. I went to work for RCAA.

Scott Hammond: Ah.

Jen Rice: Um, their natural resources services-

Scott Hammond: Wow. Cool

Jen Rice: … division and started getting involved in-

Scott Hammond: Who ran all that? Who's part of RCAA?

Jen Rice: At the time, that was Steve Madrone running that group.

Scott Hammond: Steve, right? Yeah.

Jen Rice: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Big trail guy, right?

Jen Rice: Yeah. Yeah, and that was one of the first projects I started working on, was helping him with the Hammond Trail-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Jen Rice: … and expanding that north, and s- mostly north.

Scott Hammond: Wait, what's it called?

Jen Rice: The Hammond Trail.

Scott Hammond: Named after-

Jen Rice: Holy buckets

Scott Hammond: … Jedediah Hammond.

Jen Rice: How do you, what do you know? Yeah.

Jen Rice: Nice.

Scott Hammond: Actually, I, I'm trying to think of his name. I did my homework on him. Zach-

Jen Rice: On the lumber company?

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: Uh-huh.

Scott Hammond: Zacker, uh, gosh, he, he was a big, big dude.

Jen Rice: Yeah. Part-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … one of the, I mean, lumber barons, I guess you would say.

Scott Hammond: He was.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: He had the most redwood, uh, holdings in the world at one time.

Jen Rice: Oh. I did not know that.

Scott Hammond: And GP bought him, and they divested, and he moved to Oregon.

Jen Rice: Wow.

Scott Hammond: And now there's Hammond, Oregon, up by-

Jen Rice: Oh

Scott Hammond: … Astoria.

Jen Rice: Oh, that's also named for him.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Uh, no-

Jen Rice: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … no relation.

Jen Rice: Okay.

Scott Hammond: We, I like to hang out with people.

Jen Rice: No relation. Great.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: With y- but hey-

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Who knows?

Jen Rice: … maybe, maybe somewhere back in your family tree.

Scott Hammond: It's hard to say.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, we're lumber barons around here. No, I always joke, Hammond Trail. You c- you c- it's my trail, but it's okay. Go ahead, use it.

Jen Rice: Well, it just, you know, it, it really threw me into the deep waters of, you know, sup- helping community members achieve their visions. And-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … the challenge of, you know, working with adjacent landowners who were not so sure-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … about that at the time and-

Scott Hammond: Right

Jen Rice: … um, what Steve called the landowner dance, which I still practice, is you go connect with people who have different needs and different opinions, and you work with them. You figure out how do you, how do you get them what they need, um, and how do you help them try new things also, you know?

Scott Hammond: I love it. I love the exercise. What, what happens when you hit the obstructionist, though, that says, "No, and hell no. I'm not gonna do this."

Jen Rice: Yeah. Well-

Scott Hammond: "Even though I've been heard, I went through process."

Jen Rice: I mean, that happened a lot with the Hammond Trail. I mean, and it was even, at the time, it was even, um… I love my county government, but it, it did hit a lot of, uh, roadblocks with-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Jen Rice: … you know, various governments at the time.

Jen Rice: And, and I think it was just, you know, it, it wasn't necessarily anybody's job. They didn't see it as, this isn't a road.

Jen Rice: This isn't-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … you know, I don't-

Scott Hammond: Right

Jen Rice: … this is a lot of work. I don't, I don't-

Scott Hammond: Right.

Jen Rice: I have plenty of work to do, you know?

Jen Rice: And so-

Scott Hammond: Not one more job

Jen Rice: … and the neighbors were, you know, concerned about-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … what kind of use there would be.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Jen Rice: And then as soon as the trail went in and they saw, wow, this is all, like, families and-

Scott Hammond: Super cool

Jen Rice: … bicyclists and-

Scott Hammond: Safe

Jen Rice: … yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: They kind of turned to face the trail and landscaped the trail and, um-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … and it's a different time now.

Jen Rice: There's a much larger houseless population now than there was then.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Jen Rice: Um, and s-

Scott Hammond: In McKinleyville specifically.

Jen Rice: Yeah, in Eureka, and, you know, everywhere around the Bay.

Scott Hammond: Sure.

Jen Rice: So that's, that's something that has changed a lot, and that's just part of the reality. But I, I learned a lot, um, working on the Hammond Trail and, and, um, RCAA got a little grant from the Air Quality District at the time to say, "W- how could we expand bicycle facilities around Humboldt Bay region?"

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Jen Rice: And I had a bike, and so they said, "You should do that 'cause you have a bike." And I-

Scott Hammond: You're a bike owner

Jen Rice: … I was like, "I have a natural resources planning degree. I- I'm sure I can figure this out." Um, and so I did. I just had workshops all over the county listening to people about how, you know, many people wanted to be able to ride their bikes safely. It wasn't like-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … an urban thing. This was-

Scott Hammond: Right

Jen Rice: … rural communities all around the… And the one thing they all said in Garberville and Willow Creek, they kept saying, "Why isn't there a trail between Arcata and Eureka?"

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Jen Rice: And so that was one of the– This was in '96.

Jen Rice: Um-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Jen Rice: … and-

Scott Hammond: Three decades ago.

Jen Rice: Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Jen Rice: And, and I went, "Yeah, why? I wonder why that is."

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Jen Rice: And so that kind of started me on the path of-

Scott Hammond: Oh

Jen Rice: … asking all the governments, "Why?" You know, "So whose job? So this is nobody's job. Oh, interesting. What if we put everybody in the same room who has to be, work together-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Jen Rice: … to get this done and-

Scott Hammond: Imagine that

Jen Rice: … start having those conversations?" And-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Jen Rice: … yeah, it was a saga, um, to help all the governments, you know, work together to figure that out. But I will say that, um, I think one of the r- reasons why I went from hearing the community say it's something they want to being focused on making it happen for 15 years was I got pulled out of a meeting where I was reporting on the findings in that document, I think it was like 1997, by the, by the man who programmed all the transportation dollars that came into this region. I'll just say that. I won't say his name. He pulled me out of a meeting and he said, "You know trails are never gonna happen here, right?"

Scott Hammond: Really?

Jen Rice: "I mean, you can talk about that and people can want them, but they're, it's never gonna happen here."

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Jen Rice: "So you need to stop making noise about it." And I just went-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Jen Rice: … uh, hold my beer.

Jen Rice: Like- He did- I don't think he realizes the monster he created-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … when he told me that. 'Cause I-

Scott Hammond: That's cool

Jen Rice: … because really the frustrating thing was that I had been hearing it from all over the county over and over and over-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Jen Rice: … from all kinds of people. And I was like, "You know what? I don't know. I think if people really want it, it's possible." And that's-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … what I find, is that if people just figure out what they share in common-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … and they come together to do it, they can do anything.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, I love it. I, you know, I talk to West Chesbro.

Jen Rice: Mm.

Scott Hammond: And, you know, recycling wasn't big at one time. There was no Arcata Marsh.

Jen Rice: Yes, yeah.

Scott Hammond: There was no Arcata Community Forest.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And he- all the push-

Jen Rice: Who needs permission?

Scott Hammond: Yeah. And all the pushback e- e- that, "Well, we can't do that."

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And turns out we can. We have a Hammond Trail. We have a Humboldt Bay Trail. It's pretty amazing. Was there really water lapping up with the big ti-

Jen Rice: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … big tides?

Jen Rice: Yeah. There does. And even before, um, you know, the trail was there on, on the railroad grade, and that was part of why it was actually worked out to build a trail next to the railroad grade is 'cause I think the railroad grade's gonna be important in protecting, you know, as with sea level rise, protecting the trail.

Scott Hammond: So that-

Jen Rice: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … that sits between the, the bay and the trail.

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Cool. Good idea. Um, I have so many other things that you've triggered to talk about.

Jen Rice: Ooh.

Scott Hammond: KHSU, we'll talk about that.

Jen Rice: Oh.

Scott Hammond: You had a show.

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: And let's talk about Ikshari. Is that how you say it?

Jen Rice: Mm.

Scott Hammond: Is that down on, uh-

Jen Rice: Yeah, Ikshari Trail.

Scott Hammond: That's south of Eureka, South Broadway?

Jen Rice: Yeah, since we're on the trails-

Scott Hammond: That's a big deal, right?

Jen Rice: … topic. Well, I think what for me was important, this was, uh, we wrote the Humboldt Bay Trail plan in 2000.

Jen Rice: And I went to the Wiyot Tribe, I went to Cheryl Seidner and said, "What should we call this trail?" Um, and people kept telling me, "It's gonna be too hard to say. People aren't gonna remember it. Why are, why are you, you know, just call it the Elk River Trail. That's what it is."

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Jen Rice: And I, um, I think that, that started me on a path of a lot of also what I do is work with native communities, native culture bearers and tribes, because I just, uh, I think we… It's important that we incorporate their history, their reality-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Jen Rice: … their needs into-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … everything that we do.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Jen Rice: And, um, so Cheryl named that trail back in 2000. It again, didn't get built until 2012.

Scott Hammond: Had a name already.

Jen Rice: Yeah, it had a name already.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Jen Rice: And it, um-

Scott Hammond: It's like naming a baby really early.

Jen Rice: Yeah. You know, it was, I mean, you know, that took decades of taking-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Jen Rice: … people out to show them where that trail could go.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Jen Rice: And actually, I do wanna say that the whole reason that the Eureka Waterfront Trail happened was because I was, uh, at a workshop in Blue Lake for the Annie and Mary Trail-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Jen Rice: … talking to the community members there about how to make that happen. And this high school kid rode his bike from Eureka to Blue Lake-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … to come to that meeting, and he pulled me aside afterward and he said, "Can I show you where there should be a trail in Eureka?" And I was like, "Sure."

Scott Hammond: Sure.

Jen Rice: "Let's go check it out." And so the next weekend we, like, take our bikes and haul them all around the waterfront, which you couldn't ride them at the time. You had to lift them over sloughs and-

Scott Hammond: Right

Jen Rice: … pick them through bushes. And, and this Nathaniel Von Kalso, um, who then came to work for me and helped me plan all these things and create a bike map, he showed me where the Eureka Waterfront Trail should be.

Jen Rice: And I-

Scott Hammond: So this is like from Target down to-

Jen Rice: Exactly. Yeah, actually it was from-

Scott Hammond: Down to Jack's

Jen Rice: … above, you know, above there, uh, on the other side-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … of the 101 from Target.

Scott Hammond: Like Blue Ox over, well.

Jen Rice: Yeah, where it's now, uh, what is that?

Jen Rice: The DMV now.

Scott Hammond: Oh, right, right, right.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm. And all the way down to, yeah, the Elk River, uh, s- spit.

Scott Hammond: Far out.

Jen Rice: You know? Yeah. And that w- so that was, I just share that story because that was a high schooler's vision.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: And he made it happen, you know?

Scott Hammond: So you know Colin Fisk too.

Jen Rice: I do.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And you know the other person that Se- two layers of Kevin Ba- So you had a K- KHSU show.

Jen Rice: I did.

Scott Hammond: Or you were on.

Jen Rice: Yes. Uh-

Scott Hammond: Who was that with?

Jen Rice: Well, when I was on the board of the Humboldt Folklife Society, um-

Scott Hammond: Oh, with Patrick. Hi, Pat.

Jen Rice: Yeah. Hi, Patrick.

Scott Hammond: Patrick's doing good.

Jen Rice: Yeah. Aw, awesome. Yeah, he, uh, we were in Cascadia leadership, uh, together.

Scott Hammond: Oh.

Jen Rice: And he asked me what I-

Scott Hammond: I did that too.

Jen Rice: Did you?

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: Yeah. We were in the-

Scott Hammond: With Roger

Jen Rice: … um, pilot program.

Scott Hammond: Like the early one?

Jen Rice: The experimental Cascadia.

Scott Hammond: Oh, you guys were the hamsters.

Jen Rice: Yeah. We were the hamsters. Yeah. And at the end they asked us what we wanted to do, and I just said, "Well, I wanna work on playing music." And he came up to me afterward and he said, "I can help you with that."

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Jen Rice: And then he commandeered me into the Folklife Society.

Scott Hammond: What do you play?

Jen Rice: I sing, I play guitar, and dabble with-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Jen Rice: … about four other instruments, but-

Scott Hammond: That's cool.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Did you play at the, the festival this year?

Jen Rice: I, no, I don't really. I'm more of an organizer more than I am-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Jen Rice: … I, my fiddler and mandolin player moved away years ago-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Jen Rice: … and I just never found another one. But, but, uh, because I was putting on a lot of shows and, um, organizing festivals, um, when Don Wolski, uh, passed on, he ran a show. He did the Bayside Hayride at KHSU-

Scott Hammond: All right

Jen Rice: … for years, a folk show. Uh, there was a spot for a folk show open.

Scott Hammond: Oh, cool.

Jen Rice: And so as the Folklife Society, and Don was a past leader of the Folklife Society-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … we went, "Hey, maybe we should step in there and-

Scott Hammond: He's a bit of a-

Jen Rice: … do a service for the community."

Scott Hammond: Was he a legend too?

Jen Rice: He's a legend.

Scott Hammond: I've heard his name.

Jen Rice: Yes.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: Yeah. Amazing man.

Scott Hammond: Do you ever know Greg Devaney? He worked up there.

Jen Rice: Yes. Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Greg and I go way back.

Jen Rice: Incredible. Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. So I was in Parks and Rec with, uh, Greg and, um, Peter Shepard. It was called the Manila West Haven and then Humboldt Rec Program.

Jen Rice: Oh, yeah.

Scott Hammond: When I was in college, yeah.

Jen Rice: Oh.

Scott Hammond: Yep, went up to Trinidad-

Jen Rice: Amazing

Scott Hammond: … had couple of kids get injured my first-

Jen Rice: Of course

Scott Hammond: … my first watch.

Jen Rice: Gotta learn the hard way.

Scott Hammond: Oh, my gosh. I was telling my son that the other night. I go, "Man, dude, I, I…" It was beyond my control, and of course the tooth came out, the mop bucket hit her, and- And then they discovered they didn't have insurance, which was really fun. Don't say that. That's 40 years ago. It doesn't matter.

Jen Rice: Uh, the-

Scott Hammond: There's a statute of limitations.

Jen Rice: You're like, "I'm not, uh…"

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Anyway, you learn. Live and learn.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So how long did you do the show?

Jen Rice: Um, well, mostly I just got other skilled people involved with it. I think I, uh, I hosted the show as Sally Goodin for, hmm, I don't know, three years maybe. I don't remember how long.

Scott Hammond: What'd you play?

Jen Rice: I did shows based on themes usually. So I would do-

Scott Hammond: Oh, that's cool

Jen Rice: … a train show-

Scott Hammond: Ah

Jen Rice: … and dedicate it to the dying train.

Scott Hammond: Ah.

Jen Rice: Or, or a trail show or a mama show or a, a, you know, just-

Scott Hammond: And then just pick out songs that go.

Jen Rice: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Nice.

Jen Rice: A lot of times, and play a lot. We played a lot of new releases.

Scott Hammond: Did you see Nick's new, uh, Johnny Cash album? He's gonna show you that real quick.

Jen Rice: Ooh.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: No.

Scott Hammond: Nick gets a Johnny Cash-

Jen Rice: A new one

Scott Hammond: … every time I show up. Sh- flip it over. Show it. It's a Sun label.

Jen Rice: Oh.

Scott Hammond: Real vinyl.

Jen Rice: Beautiful Sun Records.

Scott Hammond: Killer. Guess who collects vinyl now?

Jen Rice: Ooh.

Scott Hammond: This guy.

Scott Hammond: Oh, yeah.

Jen Rice: That's a, that's a… You need a lot of space for that.

Scott Hammond: I have a room already. We have a room. Thank you, Joni, for letting me have the little room.

Jen Rice: Aw.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, so w- not a whole lot of folk, but a lot of indie and stuff.

Jen Rice: Mm.

Scott Hammond: And a lot of old rock and roll.

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: I have a lot of Dylan. That counts.

Jen Rice: And, you know, a lot of places don't have places like People's Record to go to, or-

Scott Hammond: Oh, my gosh

Jen Rice: … you know, all of the local music shops and-

Scott Hammond: Steve at People's. You mean Steve at People's Records?

Jen Rice: Steve. Steve used to work with me at RCAA.

Scott Hammond: Steve's a cool dude, man. Oh, that's right. He said he did that.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: He started the Presbyterian camp in Petrolia, which is way down there in the-

Jen Rice: I know. No, it's-

Scott Hammond: Please tell me the story

Jen Rice: … it just reminded me how interconnected this community is.

Scott Hammond: He's such a-

Jen Rice: It's incredible.

Scott Hammond: He's a really nice- He's really nice to me, and he helps me, uh, buy, sell, and trade.

Jen Rice: That's a service to the community.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: Keeping a, keeping a music store open in this day and age is-

Scott Hammond: Oh

Jen Rice: … I can't imagine how hard that is.

Scott Hammond: And they're special. When you go to Grant's Pass, or we're gonna g- I'm going to Boo Boo Records in San Luis-

Jen Rice: Ooh

Scott Hammond: … Obispo on Monday. I can't wait.

Jen Rice: Isn't- Did Amoeba Records close? Is it still around?

Scott Hammond: No, it's still open.

Jen Rice: It's still open.

Scott Hammond: There's Amoeba San Francisco and Hollywood.

Jen Rice: Yeah. That's-

Scott Hammond: There's two

Jen Rice: … used to be one of my stomping grounds when I would go down there.

Scott Hammond: That's a pretty cool record store, I've heard.

Jen Rice: Yes. It's amazing. You can find anything there.

Scott Hammond: You can get anything there.

Jen Rice: 'Cause I like a lot of very obscure stuff.

Scott Hammond: I mean, I, yeah, I imagine-

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … you could have a lot of, um, choices when you have-

Jen Rice: Well-

Scott Hammond: … records

Jen Rice: … growing up in Kern County, I love the Bakersfield Sound, so.

Scott Hammond: Oh, yeah.

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Yes. We've been to, uh, the Ca- um, Mel… What's his name? Uh, Buck Owens' Crystal Palace.

Jen Rice: Oh, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Oh, crap. That was fun.

Jen Rice: Oh, that place. Yeah.

Scott Hammond: With the Cadillac on the bar?

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: That's a real-

Jen Rice: Ooh, pretty amazing

Scott Hammond: … real Cadillac.

Jen Rice: Another thing that's heartbreaking for me, though, growing up in Kern County in the '70s and '80s, uh, everybody us- used… Swing dancing was-

Scott Hammond: The thing

Jen Rice: … you know, omnipresent.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: And you, you were a good swing dancer, uh, or you would hit a wall. 'Cause if you let go, if you missed a hand, you know.

Scott Hammond: You could c- go right out, yeah.

Jen Rice: Yeah. But now you can't find that kind of dancing.

Jen Rice: It's-

Scott Hammond: It's not as big.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: And it was one of the first things I looked for when I came up here. I was like, "Where's the dancing?

Jen Rice: Dang it."

Scott Hammond: Da-

Jen Rice: And it was– It used to be at, uh-

Scott Hammond: There's some.

Jen Rice: There was. There's some. There's not much, but-

Scott Hammond: So you're, you were instrumental in the Waterfront Trail.

Scott Hammond: I mean s-

Jen Rice: Uh-huh

Scott Hammond: … s- Eureka-

Jen Rice: The Eureka Waterfront Trail.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: And then Hammond Tr- And not the Hammond as much.

Jen Rice: Well, Hammond Trail, I was, you know, support crew to Steve Madrone and Jan Matthews and-

Scott Hammond: Uh-huh

Jen Rice: … other folks who, you know, did the work to plan all of that. And m- I just did the, you know, kind of… Well, I guess I did the, um, the hole in the Hammond, which was, uh, the s- the cr- piece that crossed Widow White Creek that-

Scott Hammond: Oh, right

Jen Rice: … goes two different ways. Goes through the creek and next to the highway.

Jen Rice: And so-

Scott Hammond: They're doing something to it right now or soon, aren't they?

Jen Rice: They did. They had to close it, uh-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … for water or wastewater, one or the other.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

Jen Rice: Yeah, repair.

Scott Hammond: Cool.

Jen Rice: So I think you have to go the creek route right now, yeah.

Scott Hammond: So I need you to name names that have helped.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Like this Hank Seaman, right? He was helpful in Eureka.

Jen Rice: Hank Seaman.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: Another one of my favorite humans.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Miles, Miles Slattery.

Jen Rice: Miles. Yep. Eureka-

Scott Hammond: What's up, Miles?

Jen Rice: … Waterfront Trail wouldn't have happened without Miles.

Jen Rice: Yep.

Scott Hammond: How about the city council? Were they i- instrumental in terms of the-

Jen Rice: There were individuals over time who believed in it. Um, Connie Miller-

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Jen Rice: Uh, Virginia Bass.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Jen Rice: Yeah. Who, uh, Peter LaValley, who-

Scott Hammond: Sure

Jen Rice: … went to bat. You know, it was-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … at, when I was working on planning the Waterfront Trail, uh, you know, it just… It was, again, it was a lot of work-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … you know, for city staff.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Jen Rice: And it wasn't something that folks were really that excited about.

Jen Rice: And I would get nastygrams from Target when they were proposing to build their building, and I said, "You should build the trail when you build the building," and they would threaten me with legal action.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Jen Rice: And so I just called the Coastal Commission and said, "Sic 'em."

Scott Hammond: Go get 'em, boys.

Jen Rice: Yeah. I was like, "Here's time for a regulator." It's like-

Scott Hammond: I'm gonna co-

Jen Rice: … they don't get the vision, make 'em get the vision.

Scott Hammond: I'm gonna co-

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I'm gonna carbon copy this email.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Hey, folks. That's great. So we're gonna talk about Great Redwood Trail, but first-

Jen Rice: Oh, mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … it's time for chocolate.

Jen Rice: Time for chocolate.

Scott Hammond: But you gotta pass the quiz.

Jen Rice: Ooh.

Scott Hammond: Don't-

Jen Rice: I love quizzes

Scott Hammond: … don't get carried away yet. You haven't won anything. Okay. Just kidding. Not, not really. Okay. You ready?

Jen Rice: Okay, I'm ready.

Scott Hammond: If you're just joining me, my new best friend, Jen Rice. Are you ready?

Jen Rice: I'm ready.

Scott Hammond: Question number one: Best day ever.

Jen Rice: Best day ever has gotta be, uh, floating the North Fork Smith on a sunny, beautiful day

Scott Hammond: Whoa. That's a good one.

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm. It's-

Scott Hammond: Emerald Green Water

Jen Rice: … it makes the Smith River look turbid.

Scott Hammond: Hmm. The North Fork.

Jen Rice: It's so clear.

Scott Hammond: You said the North Fork.

Jen Rice: Yeah. It's way out in the middle of nowhere. It's hard to get there.

Scott Hammond: Where do you find that? Is it up, like, in the Siskiyous?

Jen Rice: It's between Del- It's between Crescent City and Gasquet, out in the boonies.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Jen Rice: Yeah. And it's, uh, in-

Scott Hammond: I know where the South Fork comes in, but the North-

Jen Rice: Yeah. The North Fork is, you gotta make special effort to get there, and it's Class IV, and you gotta have a small boat, so… And you usually can only run it when it's raining.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Jen Rice: So it's-

Scott Hammond: Right

Jen Rice: … it was a very special day to be there with actually friends. The friends I met when I woke up on the Trinity River in 1988 and met a bunch of people who wanted to learn how to be river guides and-

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Was Jim part of that trip, Jim Ritter?

Jen Rice: Sorry?

Scott Hammond: Was Jim Ritter part of that trip?

Jen Rice: Uh, he was not part-

Scott Hammond: Oh

Jen Rice: … of that trip, but he could've been.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Could've been. Um, I actually had a year where I lived with Steve Cole from Yakima.

Jen Rice: Hmm.

Scott Hammond: And I took, we took them rafting up the South Fork of the Eel somewhere-

Jen Rice: Hmm

Scott Hammond: … in the rain-

Jen Rice: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … in the winter, and we shuttled the car. We were car shuttlers.

Jen Rice: Incredible.

Scott Hammond: I don't know what I was paid, but something. He's a really neat guy.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Hi, Steve. Okay. Question number two.

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Worst day ever.

Jen Rice: Oh, probably, uh, when I lost my stepmom a couple years ago and-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Jen Rice: … threw the family into a lot of turmoil.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Death is hard stuff.

Jen Rice: Hard stuff. Yeah. My mom, my stepmom inspired… She was a naturalist and artist and, uh, had a house full of native history books and-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Jen Rice: … inspired me to be a lot of things.

Jen Rice: She was– She dressed up, and she also ran chainsaws.

Scott Hammond: I love it.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Renaissance woman.

Jen Rice: Renaissance woman. Absolutely.

Scott Hammond: Was she in Curry County too?

Jen Rice: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Wow. Okay. That's, that's hard when you think of those-

Jen Rice: And she also climbed 300-foot wind towers.

Scott Hammond: For-

Jen Rice: She worked for the wind industry in Tehachapi.

Scott Hammond: Oh, re- 'cause it's pretty windy.

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Joni's dad's from Porterville, so he, Jerry Bella.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And he worked for, uh, Edison down there. Crazy stories.

Jen Rice: I-

Scott Hammond: The storms.

Jen Rice: Oof. Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Being up in electrical. Ah.

Jen Rice: Ooh.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Crazy.

Jen Rice: Yeah. Not for me.

Scott Hammond: Crazy.

Jen Rice: Thank you for your service.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Okay. Question number three.

Scott Hammond: Ready?

Jen Rice: Yes.

Scott Hammond: You're doing pretty good, by the way.

Jen Rice: Oh.

Scott Hammond: You're getting closer.

Jen Rice: Knock on wood.

Scott Hammond: Question number three. If you could go back to one day in history-

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … any day, not your history, but a, could be your history, what, what day would you relive, and where and why?

Jen Rice: Holy buckets. Relive a day in history.

Jen Rice: Um, I don't know. I guess if I could've had some influence, I don't know. The first thing that comes to mind is when the state of California passed legislation. This is kind of gruesome. Uh, I don't know why I'm going here, but, uh- … paying $5 a scalp for Native people, if I could've changed that.

Scott Hammond: Wow. Okay. Good one.

Jen Rice: And, and dishonoring the treaties of Native people.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

Jen Rice: Um, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Jen Rice: I would've done my darnedest.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Yeah. I th- I think you would've-

Jen Rice: Even as a female back then, I wouldn't have much purchase, but, you know.

Scott Hammond: That's okay. Okay. Question… I like that answer. It's a good answer. Question number f- I gotta make my bell really ring. Are you ready?

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Who are you and what do you want?

Jen Rice: Who am I and what do I want?

Jen Rice: So deep.

Jen Rice: Um

Scott Hammond: Metaphorical. Metaphysical.

Jen Rice: Uh, I am a change agent who wants people's and the planet's, uh, circumstances to always improve and be better.

Jen Rice: So I want-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Jen Rice: … I just, I want us all to do better as humans. I want our organizations to do better, I want our governments to do better, and I want us to do better for each other and the land and the rivers.

Scott Hammond: Love it. I, I like your identity. You're s- You're really- You're so centered and connected. All the, all those things we'd say in the '70s. You're so cool, man. You're so-

Jen Rice: I don't know

Scott Hammond: … grounded.

Jen Rice: Uh-

Scott Hammond: But I mean that. I think it's like, oh, people really struggle with that one. It's like, who am I? I-

Jen Rice: Yeah. Hmm

Scott Hammond: … I'm a mom, I'm a dad, I'm a thing, I work.

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: No. Well, it's-

Jen Rice: I know. In our culture, we don't… You know, we're just taught to identify with our work.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Jen Rice: And, um, and I think that's something we've lost in, in this culture is that sense of who we are and what's important to us.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: And myself included. I have worked… I had to– That's when I left, um, Humboldt Bay Foundation five years ago to go to grad school. That was one of the reasons that I was like, "I need to get, I need to get focused on what I really want for the latter half of my life."

Scott Hammond: That's good.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: The, my notes said Fielding?

Scott Hammond: Fielding?

Jen Rice: Fielding Graduate University.

Scott Hammond: Grad. Where's that?

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: What's that?

Jen Rice: It's based in Santa Barbara.

Jen Rice: Um-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Jen Rice: … and they really just have two colleges.

Jen Rice: One is psychology, basically, and one is organizational development and leadership, which I had never really heard of.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Jen Rice: But when I looked into it, I was like, "Oh, that's what I've always done, is help people-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Jen Rice: … be better leaders and help organizations and groups of organizations do bigger, bolder things." So cool. Those are my people.

Scott Hammond: Nice. And Santa Barbara's a great place to go.

Jen Rice: I, it would've been, except I did it remotely during the pandemic.

Scott Hammond: Oh. Shucks. Crap.

Jen Rice: I almost– I got, I got accepted to Harvard Kennedy School, and I was close to going there, but I just, I just, they weren't my people.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: Um, they're a little too rigid for me.

Scott Hammond: Different coast.

Jen Rice: Yeah. A little old school for me.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: But-

Scott Hammond: Mindset

Jen Rice: … it was very expensive.

Scott Hammond: And there's the, the-

Jen Rice: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … and then there was that.

Jen Rice: And I didn't wanna do that during COVID, be like, you know, remote, going to Harvard. That didn't make sense, so.

Scott Hammond: So, um, I, I'm gonna read a quote-

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm

Scott Hammond: … actually, that actually plays into this.

Scott Hammond: Um- Her career demonstrates an ability to work on projects that take decades rather than months.

Jen Rice: Mm.

Scott Hammond: She appears particularly effective in circumstances involving competing interests, regulatory obstacles, limited resources, and multiple organizations with different priorities.

Scott Hammond: Wow.

Jen Rice: Ooh, that sounds superhuman.

Scott Hammond: That sounds really-

Jen Rice: I don't know about that.

Scott Hammond: Sounds really hard.

Jen Rice: I think that overpromises.

Scott Hammond: I like it. It's, it implies like a superhuman-

Jen Rice: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … effort. So as an ADD sufferer, uh, I'm, I'm… Hey, high five.

Jen Rice: Me too.

Scott Hammond: Nice.

Jen Rice: High five.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, it's cool.

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: But your ADD, you've corralled it 'cause you can do it with decades.

Jen Rice: Well, it looks like that, but

Scott Hammond: People imagine that.

Jen Rice: Appearances are amazing, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. No, I, uh, tons of friends are ADD. My boss accused me of that, and I go, "How dare you?" And I called my friend.

Scott Hammond: I go, "Lisa, Alex said I had ADD." She goes- …

Scott Hammond: "Duh." Thanks. Thank you, friends. All right, question number five.

Jen Rice: Yes.

Scott Hammond: The last one, for all the marbles, or at least all the chocolate.

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: So Jen, you get a day off, whatever you wanna do, 9:00 to 9:00, AM to PM, do whatever you wanna do in Humboldt. What are you, what are you gonna do?

Jen Rice: Hmm.

Scott Hammond: And you have a $10,000 budget.

Jen Rice: Ooh, a $10,000 budget. Oh, that's a whole nother level. I was gonna say, I do that every year for my birthday. I go do something I wanna go do.

Jen Rice: Um.

Scott Hammond: So it's your birthday, and you got the day off.

Jen Rice: $10,000 budget. Oh.

Scott Hammond: So let's say you got a $1,000 budget.

Jen Rice: Okay.

Scott Hammond: I don't know what you'd do with 10K. You'd throw a big party. That'd be easy. Or donate it.

Jen Rice: Oh, this is the challenge. There are so many amazing things that I wanna get done here and help people do. Uh, the, the money, there's the, like, doing cool things for myself is one category. Doing cool things with money for the community is a completely different category. How do I, how could I do both?

Jen Rice: Let's see.

Scott Hammond: Hmm.

Jen Rice: Um.

Scott Hammond: Take your time. This is for all the marbles.

Jen Rice: Right. I used to-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … I used to do a lot of audio editing, so this is where blank space is okay.

Scott Hammond: It'll be fine. Let's say it's mostly for you.

Jen Rice: Takes a lot of time, by the way.

Scott Hammond: This is…

Jen Rice: Hats off. Uh.

Scott Hammond: This is your day.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: But you can include others, of course.

Jen Rice: Um, okay, I should probably stop thinking really big and keep it simple.

Jen Rice: Um.

Scott Hammond: You know what's cool about silence? When you do, when this is on TV, on YouTube, people are gonna go, "Is my TV okay?" They're gonna be looking over it going-

Jen Rice: Oh, you don't edit it out.

Scott Hammond: Oh, no, I, I don't think-

Jen Rice: Oh.

Scott Hammond: I hope he doesn't.

Jen Rice: Here I'm thinking I can-

Scott Hammond: This might even go on TV

Jen Rice: … I can be quiet because you can just clip that part.

Scott Hammond: Drunkers might get this. Who knows? Maybe Drunkers will get this on KHSU.

Scott Hammond: Hey, Mike.

Jen Rice: Oh, no. Hi, Mike.

Scott Hammond: Love, love you mean it.

Jen Rice: Um, if I had one day to do whatever I wanted, um, I think I'm just gonna leave money out of it because that just complicates things.

Jen Rice: Um-

Scott Hammond: I think that threw the question off. What, what would you, what would be on your agenda?

Jen Rice: Well, um-

Scott Hammond: It's a you day

Jen Rice: … I think, you know, something I always love to do, I just naturally like to bring people together and connect them.

Scott Hammond: Mm.

Jen Rice: And so, and do it in beautiful places, um, where you can just be humans and c- and have-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … real honest conversations.

Jen Rice: Like-

Scott Hammond: It's beautiful. I love it

Jen Rice: … like I was saying earlier, put your guts on the table, and they'll put their guts on the table, and you can-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … do real, get real things done.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Jen Rice: Um, so I think about times when, you know, like gathering on Blue Creek, on the Klamath River, or even-

Scott Hammond: Mm

Jen Rice: … recently up at Ruth Lake with folks who are thinking about the future of the Bodewad or the Mad River Watershed or-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Jen Rice: … um, and I'm, I'm trying to think about what the, what the hairy challenge is right now that would be lovely to bring people together to get to know each other and figure it out. Uh, actually, there's a beautiful vision that a bunch of the organizations in this region that I'm working with have. Um, it's, it's groups like the Mid-Klamath Watershed Center and the Mattole Restoration Council and Native Health and Native Hands and the Northern Mendocino Ecological Restoration Alliance and-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Jen Rice: … all these groups that do kind of landscape scale restoration-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Jen Rice: … work. And I often get asked, because I used to do that kind of work, I often get asked by kids, like, "How do I, how do I do that? How do I get started-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Jen Rice: … in that? Where do I get a job?" And all of these organizations have a tough time finding, you know, getting f- kids from high school into that-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Jen Rice: … pathway of workforce-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Jen Rice: … of learning how to do fish counts and learning how to do prescribed fire and-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Jen Rice: … learning how to do, um, forest thinning and, you know, um, work in the woods like a lot of us here want to. And they wanna create a regional circuit so that kids and anybody looking for internships or trainings can sign up, and they can get fire training with the-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Jen Rice: … Southern Humboldt Volunteer Fire District that's got all those fire districts working together.

Jen Rice: Or they can-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Jen Rice: … go learn how to swim in creeks and count fish, um, uh, or they can go do prescribed fire, and they can go on a circuit and go all around the region and learn-

Scott Hammond: Wow

Jen Rice: … all of these things and put them together and, um-

Scott Hammond: Next level

Jen Rice: … I would love to bring, you know, like, I think, economic development people together and-

Scott Hammond: Hmm. Cal Poly

Jen Rice: … schools, career tech ed-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … folks and, um- … tribes who are want similar things-

Scott Hammond: I love that

Jen Rice: … um, together and do it in a beautiful place, um, and f- figure out how to make it work for our kids so that they can-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Jen Rice: … walk straight from high school into these amazing outdoor jobs.

Scott Hammond: Sounds like a CR Cal Poly partnership thing.

Jen Rice: Yes. Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Dr. Richard is a cool guy.

Jen Rice: Yeah, and probably high schools. Like, Fortuna High has a big-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … career tech ed, um, component where, yeah, you just start learning that stuff in high school. That's like I did. That's, you know, helping my dad.

Jen Rice: That's-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … you know, um-

Scott Hammond: Right on.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So you're the, your, your final answer then is some sort of gathering-

Jen Rice: Hmm

Scott Hammond: … of friends.

Jen Rice: Sorry, that was a very long- … answer. S- classic Jen Rice.

Jen Rice: Expound on-

Scott Hammond: I think that's okay

Jen Rice: … and go-

Scott Hammond: That's okay

Jen Rice: … down lots of rabbit holes. Um, yeah, I think that would be-

Scott Hammond: Some sort of outdoor party somewhere.

Jen Rice: Yeah, you know, on a river and, you know-

Scott Hammond: Hmm

Jen Rice: … for a couple, few days and just really knuckle down, figure it out, and have a lot of fun, and-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … maybe do a little boating while we're at it.

Scott Hammond: Might as well. There's a river.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Well, congrats to you.

Jen Rice: Hmm.

Scott Hammond: You are the winner, winner, chicken dinner. Florida Soul.

Jen Rice: Florida Soul. Mm. Oh, I don't have my glasses on.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: Mm.

Scott Hammond: It's so good.

Jen Rice: Thank you.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. You're welcome. Enjoy.

Jen Rice: This is a crowd pleaser. I love to take it. Whenever… You know, one thing about Humboldt, our f- our foodiness-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … it's always fun to go places where, you know, people who used to live here, and you bring a little bit of some kind of food to them.

Jen Rice: It depends-

Scott Hammond: Larpin

Jen Rice: … on when they lived here-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … 'cause if they lived here, like, 30, 40 years ago-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … you take Larpin sauce, and you take-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm. Slug Slime from Los Bagels.

Jen Rice: Well, that was even, that was say more, that's, like, more like 20 or 30 years ago, but-

Scott Hammond: Could be a while

Jen Rice: … and then maybe more like 15 or 20 years ago, it would be like, you know, Cypress Grove or-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … or new to them-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … if they haven't lived here in a while-

Scott Hammond: Oh, yeah

Jen Rice: … and it's always a crowd pleaser is Dick Taylor chocolate.

Scott Hammond: I think I totally agree with you.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Let's go into Redwood Trail.

Jen Rice: The Great Redwood Trail?

Scott Hammond: The Great-

Jen Rice: Yes

Scott Hammond: … Redwood Trail.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Not, not the not great one.

Jen Rice: This is gonna take a few generations to get that one done.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. But let's go Annie and Mary. We'll go smaller, then we'll go bigger.

Jen Rice: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Scott Hammond: And if you're just joining us, you're super late to the show. It's Jen Rice, my new best friend, and we're talking trails and other things.

Scott Hammond: And the very f- not many levels of Kevin Bacon in Humboldt County. What'd you call the Venn diagram?

Jen Rice: Oh, well, I guess I give it two terms.

Scott Hammond: Network.

Jen Rice: Any given weekend might be the Humboldt Social Olympics if you have to go to-

Scott Hammond: Okay

Jen Rice: … four or more events. But at every one of those events, you see someone, and you're like-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … "How do we know each other?" And that's where you have to start sorting your great social Venn diagram and be like, "Which circle?"

Scott Hammond: Right.

Jen Rice: "Or which five circles-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … overlap that we have seen each other in?" Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Ran into Susan this week at the car repair place. How do, how do I…

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: We swim together at HealthSport-

Jen Rice: Great

Scott Hammond: … right up the street. I go, "Total- Oh, yeah, totally. Oh, I know you." "We sure you do."

Jen Rice: I love it.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, Joni and I have a joke. "Hey.

Scott Hammond: Hey, you."

Jen Rice: Hey, you.

Scott Hammond: Hey, you.

Jen Rice: Oh, it's so good to see you.

Scott Hammond: How have you been?

Jen Rice: I'm glad I'm not the only one.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Hi, Joni. I remember Joni, so that's good. So, uh, Annie Mary, uh, Trail's gonna-

Jen Rice: Annie Mary Trail

Scott Hammond: … gonna happen from… It's already happening, right?

Jen Rice: Yeah. It's so exciting.

Scott Hammond: How far is it?

Jen Rice: Big chunk of it.

Scott Hammond: Is it at pump station one yet?

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Or four or whatever it was?

Jen Rice: Yeah. It's, um… I believe it's…

Jen Rice: Well, the grand opening is, or at least the ribbon cutting is coming up here soon. And yeah, it goes basically from Arcata to the river.

Scott Hammond: Okay.

Jen Rice: It's, it's-

Scott Hammond: Which part of the river?

Jen Rice: Um, the Water District Park.

Scott Hammond: Along West End Road?

Jen Rice: Yes. Yeah, on West End Road. Yes.

Scott Hammond: How did they put that in? Like, is it below on that property there or above?

Jen Rice: Yeah. It goes, it goes by and through a bunch of homes. It, um… Luckily, uh, they could avoid the old rickety trestles for that part-

Scott Hammond: Oh. Oh, I know them well

Jen Rice: … and just stay basically between the highway and, you know, West or, uh, yeah, West End Road.

Scott Hammond: So will it stay on West End all the way out to Blue Lake?

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Oh.

Jen Rice: Uh, well, to Warren Creek. It goes, uh, Warren Creek Road is-

Scott Hammond: Right

Jen Rice: … where the Water District Park is.

Scott Hammond: Loved out there.

Jen Rice: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Wanna hear a romantic story?

Jen Rice: Yes, I'd love one.

Scott Hammond: So I lived on Warren Creek Road. Joni lived across the, the river on Fieldbrook Road.

Jen Rice: Oh, yeah. Lindy-

Scott Hammond: And she had a Super Beetle and a Volkswagen.

Jen Rice: Oh.

Scott Hammond: And guess who got his ride to work with my new best friend, Joni?

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And I would cross the trestle every morning in the frost or whatever, rain.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And I'd hop in the car. Well, when we got a little bit more serious, then there was, like, a little bit more back and forth on that. And if, you know, the trestle, it's-

Jen Rice: That's a long way around you know.

Scott Hammond: No, it's, yeah.

Jen Rice: Well, uh-

Scott Hammond: To save him-

Jen Rice: But the trestle is the short route.

Scott Hammond: It is. And you-

Jen Rice: But you gotta be able to walk, uh, you know, step between ties with-

Scott Hammond: Oh, my gosh

Jen Rice: … water rushing under your feet.

Scott Hammond: Oh, it's a trip, especially in the frost.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Or cold or night or all three.

Jen Rice: Wow.

Scott Hammond: So-

Jen Rice: So you did that commute across the trestle.

Scott Hammond: I know. I really sacri- I really sacrificed for Jo-

Jen Rice: That's, that's-

Scott Hammond: No, she would come over to see me

Jen Rice: … I'm impressed.

Scott Hammond: It was fun. Hi, Joni.

Jen Rice: And the first time I took a bunch of engineers out there, I think about half of them were like, "Nope."

Scott Hammond: Not gonna happen. It's really old.

Jen Rice: Not walking out there. Yeah.

Scott Hammond: It's supposed to be 100, 90, 80, 90 feet, right?

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Pretty high.

Jen Rice: Yeah. It's high, and it's wide.

Jen Rice: Mm-hmm.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: That's gonna be one of the challenges for… I don't, I, you know, I haven't been involved in planning that trail for a very long time.

Scott Hammond: Me neither.

Jen Rice: So I would suggest talking to one of my old homies, Emily Sinquern or Hank Seaman, about, you know, um, how they're gonna get that connected between Arc- Blue Lake and the river-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … basically through Glendale, but-

Scott Hammond: How will they get it over the river?

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: Getting it over the river, um, on, and the, you know, water district's got a pipe on that trestle.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Jen Rice: So-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … that's their, their keen interest-

Scott Hammond: Yeah, yeah

Jen Rice: … in that as well. Yeah.

Jen Rice: But, um, yeah, I think, well, when I planned it, we planned it in the Caltrans right away on the, uh, s- north side of the road because it was gonna be tough to weave it through Glendale, but I think they've since figured out how to do that.

Scott Hammond: Cool.

Jen Rice: So, yeah.

Scott Hammond: It's gonna be great.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: So-

Jen Rice: It's gonna be amazing. I, I feel terrible. You know, the folks who owned the Red Radish in- Blue Lake, I told their son when he was about four that I'd have that trail done for him by the time he was ready to ride to high school, and he's graduated college quite a while ago.

Scott Hammond: Oh, no. I like your optimism.

Jen Rice: I failed on on that mission.

Scott Hammond: Tried.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Swing and a miss.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I love that.

Jen Rice: I thought that was gonna be the first trail that was gonna happen because the railroad had no, you know, was, was definitely not gonna use that track again.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. Oh, no.

Jen Rice: So, so-

Scott Hammond: That's funny

Jen Rice: … but little did we know it was gonna be one of the harder ones to, to actually-

Scott Hammond: So the Great Railroad Trail.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: And then I'm going to ask you my killer question.

Jen Rice: Ooh.

Scott Hammond: And then we're gonna talk about your legacy all in, like, three minutes.

Jen Rice: Oh, goodness. Okay.

Scott Hammond: Are you ready? Great Railroad's gonna be fun, right?

Jen Rice: Okay, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Can we do it?

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: It'll, it'll happen?

Jen Rice: You go. Okay. Oh, well-

Scott Hammond: It's, it's in the, it's on the-

Jen Rice: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … it's in the books, right?

Jen Rice: I mean, you gotta, you g- you gotta aim high

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … to achieve anything.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Jen Rice: And that's aiming, it is aiming really high. I also spend a lot of time in the Eel River Canyon boating in there.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: And I know that it's, you know, a tall order-

Scott Hammond: Yeah

Jen Rice: … and that there are a lot of folks in there who are frustrated about it. Um, and there's also, you know, a lot of folks in there who are like, "Hey, could I, you know, make business out of this? Could I do a dude ranch? Could I-

Scott Hammond: Sure

Jen Rice: … have a private campground?" I'm like, "Go make hay, man."

Scott Hammond: Yeah, do it.

Jen Rice: You know, do it. Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah.

Jen Rice: So-

Scott Hammond: So it goes all the way to Willits?

Scott Hammond: Beyond.

Jen Rice: Beyond.

Scott Hammond: To Ukiah?

Jen Rice: Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, it basically connects down in Cloverdale-

Scott Hammond: Oh, very cool

Jen Rice: … um, with the train coming north.

Scott Hammond: So in theory-

Jen Rice: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … Cloverdale to Pat- Sumeg?

Jen Rice: Well, you know, the railroad, the great… So there's, uh, other trail systems, yes, that it could connect with-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … like the, um, Pacific Coast Trail-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … um, for sure. And I think the challenge with getting up to Sumeg is that it's just geography.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Jen Rice: It's rugged.

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm.

Jen Rice: I did, I did a plan for the Hum- the California part of the Coastal Trail, or the Humboldt part of the Coastal Trail-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … for California, and those were more of the challenging parts of-

Scott Hammond: So at least it may be-

Jen Rice: … making it happen

Scott Hammond: … Trinidad.

Jen Rice: Yeah, north of Trinidad is good stuff.

Scott Hammond: Oh.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: Cool.

Scott Hammond: Love it. Um-

Jen Rice: But, uh, you know, I think the, what I see is that local governments and regional governments, it's changed. They don't see it as an impossibility anymore.

Jen Rice: It's like-

Scott Hammond: It's a mindset, yeah

Jen Rice: … figure out how to do it. Yeah, it's a mindset-

Scott Hammond: It's a-

Jen Rice: … shift, yeah.

Scott Hammond: Yeah, I love it.

Jen Rice: Which makes a major difference.

Scott Hammond: And guess who helped in that? A little bit.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I love it.

Jen Rice: Just demonstrate.

Scott Hammond: So my-

Jen Rice: Que se puede

Scott Hammond: … my award-winning AI question.

Jen Rice: Okay. Yes.

Scott Hammond: Are you ready?

Jen Rice: Uh-huh.

Scott Hammond: This is for another chocolate. No, I'm kidding. I loved it. Um, what did you learn about human nature during the nearly 30 years it took to transform a trail vision into a physical connection between Arcata, Eureka?

Jen Rice: So many things. Um, well, I think I shared one of them earlier is you can do dang well whatever you put your mind to-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … when you're finding lots of people who wanna do the same thing.

Scott Hammond: Love it.

Jen Rice: Um, I learned that you'll break your back if you try to do it by yourself.

Scott Hammond: Yes.

Jen Rice: Break a lot of things, uh, your nervous system, um-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … uh, and that helping… I just, that helped me sh- fundamentally shift my perspective from planning things at people

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … which is traditionally how things get done, is you get planners to plan things, and you get a little bit of feedback, but you plan it.

Scott Hammond: Right.

Jen Rice: But it shifted me to focusing on helping people come together to figure out what they want and helping them-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … make it happen.

Jen Rice: So-

Scott Hammond: Kind of like raising kids.

Jen Rice: Yeah. Yes.

Scott Hammond: Yeah. It's, it's-

Jen Rice: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … it's essentially, that's-

Jen Rice: Raising good humans

Scott Hammond: … if you're, if you're doing it correctly-

Jen Rice: Yeah

Scott Hammond: … in my opinion.

Jen Rice: Yeah.

Scott Hammond: I love it. So-

Jen Rice: Help them figure it out. Yeah

Scott Hammond: … what do you want your legacy to be?

Jen Rice: I think just no matter what the issue is, just helping groups of people become better humans, better organizations, and do things that I think are considered impossible, make 'em happen, you know?

Scott Hammond: Love it. Love it.

Jen Rice: Yeah. So whether that's a big regional trail system or bringing the whole Botawa Mad River Watershed together or helping, supporting native people to bring fire back-

Scott Hammond: Mm-hmm

Jen Rice: … uh, whatever the issue, um, I just, I know we can do it when we listen to each other and invest in our ability to figure it out together.

Scott Hammond: And you've seen it. You made it happen.

Jen Rice: Yeah, over and over and over.

Scott Hammond: Thanks for making this happen.

Jen Rice: You, thanks for making this happen. You had to chase me for a-

Scott Hammond: No

Jen Rice: … long time

Scott Hammond: … no, thank you. I did, I did chase you for a little while.

Jen Rice: Ugh, I'm, yeah.

Scott Hammond: So if you're just joining us, you're really late. Uh, please like us, love us, um, subscribe to us, make comments, send us gold bullion. Scott Hammond, 100% Humboldt podcast. Make it a great day.

Jen Rice: Thank you, Scott.

Scott Hammond: Thank you.

Jen Rice: It's been such an honor.

Scott Hammond: Super honored.

Jen Rice: Alright.